HomeMy WebLinkAbout2013-01-22 TranscriptionJanuary 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page I
Council Present: Champion, Dickens, Dobyns, Hayek, Mims, Payne, Throgmorton
Staff Present: Fruin, Dilkes, Karr, Davidson, Scott, Ford, Elias, Fosse, Moran, Gannon
Others Present: Bramel (UISG)
Agenda Items:
Hayek/ Okay ... we on, uh, well welcome to the, uh, January 22nd work session. Go ahead and get
started. The first bullet point is questions regarding agenda items. Does anybody have
anything?
ITEM 7. AMENDING DOWNTOWN URBAN RENEWAL PLAN TO ALLOW
DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT FOR FIELDHOUSE BAR
REDEVELOPMENT PROJECT - RESOLUTION TO AMEND CITY -
UNIVERSITY URBAN RENEWAL PLAN TO ADD A PROPOSED
URBAN RENEWAL PROJECT REHABILITATING A VACANT
BUILDING FOR OFFICE AND COMMERCIAL USE TO BE
UNDERTAKEN WITHIN THE AREA.
Throgmorton/ I ... I have questions about two agenda items, but I don't know if anybody else has
stuff to bring up.
Hayek/ Why don't you go ahead!
Throgmorton/ With regard to Item 7, uh, the downtown urban renewal plan, uh, in relation to the
Fieldhouse Bar. If...if I read correctly section 3 of the amended plan states, it is
estimated that the City's cost of...for initial anticipated proposed projects discussed in
section 3 will be in the, I gather, $5.2 million range given the change that came out this
afternoon. So, I ... I'm just confused. I don't know how that relates to the $13.5 million
that developers have requested for the College and Gilbert Street project. So I ... help me
just to understand.
Davidson/ The College and Gilbert project would need to be amended in. It's not included (both
talking)
Throgmorton/ Okay, so it's not included in ... in what we see right now.
Davidson/ 5.2, and correct me if I'm wrong, Wendy, the 5.2 is basically projects in the funded
and unfunded years of the CIP that we anticipate... maybe...
Ford/ Correct, that we ... we have enough information to have been able to put a timeline and a
dollar amount to those particular projects which is a requirement of the new TIF laws.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 2
Dilkes/ (several talking) ...let me just add, essentially those are the ... those are the sum of the
projects that are already identified in the plan.
Throgmorton/ Well ... well, one of the reasons I get a bit confused un ... unless I read it too
quickly, is that the amendment did not identify the specific projects that totaled up to 5.2
million.
Ford / Amendment #10 lists all of those, um, and I wish I would have brought my (away from
mic)
Throgmorton/ But ... but not in the one we just got, right?
Ford/ The one you just got, no. There's only one project listed in that.
Throgmorton/ Okay.
Ford/ ...and that paves the way for negotiations on a project that would be (both talking)
Throgmorton/ Okay, so it's added to the others that are already in amendment #10 (several
talking) Okay! Good, that ... that helps me understand that. Thanks! Uh, the other
question I have, uh, has to do with class A office space. So ... I'm basically wondering,
well ... you know, the ... the Fieldhouse involves class A office space. The building that's
being constructed on south Dubuque Street right now involves class A office space. The
College and Gilbert Street project involves class A office space. I'm wondering whether
the staff has assessed the risk that we might be supporting too much class A office space,
and then the question basically comes... becomes, how do we know? If ..if there's too
much, too little? I ... I know how markets supposedly answer that question, but I don't
know how we in issuing TIFs answer the question, so...
Davidson/ What we know right now, Jim, is that in downtown Iowa City there's not enough, um,
and we know that through working with ICAD, and when they bring interstate commerce
type businesses to town, they can't even bring `em downtown to look at anything because
there isn't anything! Um, the only space that's been created recently has been the Vito's
space, which we were involved in incenting, and it is leased, completely leased up. Uh,
they Park at 201 project, as you point out, will have the three floors. They're pretty small
floors. They're about 3,000 square foot, uh, 3,000 square feet each, so we are still in the
business of trying to encourage additional class A office space. Quite frankly, it's been a,
um, point of contention between Iowa City and Coralville in that Coralville does have
space for potential candidates to look at, uh, and this is something that ICAD has brought
to our attention, and so we ... cannot answer at this time exactly what that market potential
is and how much the, uh, the market will absorb on an ongoing basis. What we know
right now is that we have a dearth of it in downtown Iowa City and we're trying to
encourage more.
Champion/ Can you help me out? Are ... is there more than one floor of office space in the new
Moen building that we approved?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 3
Davidson/ Yes. I mean, that's all subject to negotiation, but it has either two or three.
Ford/ Correct.
Davidson/ Yeah.
Champion/ And one is already leased.
Davidson/ Yes. One would be for the Rohrbach firm, yeah.
Throgmorton/ I ... I don't want to make a big deal out of it for this particular project, you know,
but looking ahead, it...it just isn't clear to me how we're supposed to gauge whether or
not we should be offering a TIF to some new proposal involving class A office space. In
the downtown or south downtown district. How are we supposed to judge that?
Davidson/ And actually, Jim, that would ... that would go for workforce housing or arts and
entertainment venues. Quite frankly any of the things that right now we are encouraging
through financial incentives may reach a point — in the future — where we no longer need
to do that. In fact, that would probably be the hope, but at the present time...
Dickens/ Ground floor retail and office space, you know, that ... in all these new buildings that
are being built, you see how many are still sitting empty. You know, have we reached a
point on those? You know, the one on south Gilbert Street, uh, Clark Street...
Ford/ I don't know if I would classify those are class A, and I think that's (both talking)
particular difference between that type of office space and the kind that is class A, that
would offer conference rooms, that would offer nice conference rooms; lots of light, um,
plenty of bathrooms for the employees who work there, and I just don't think that those
office spaces typically fill that bill.
Dickens/ Okay.
Throgmorton/ I just think we (both talking)
Ford/ (away from mic)
Throgmorton/ ...we need to be lookin' ahead ... and I would encourage the staff to be thinking
about how to gauge, how to measure, whether we're at a... at a, I don't know, tipping
point or whatever the right word would be for that.
Ford/ It's been a little over four years since we employed MarketTech, the firm from Portland,
Oregon, to help us with the market niche analysis for downtown, and ... and while it is a
little over four years old, one of the things they did was ... was analyze the support of the
growth in downtown Iowa City for additional office space in general, not just class A.
We have some of that data, in other words, and it was a lot of office space that we ... we
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 4
could still support with Iowa City the way it is right now, without ... not even accounting
for our growth. So we can ... we can, uh, revisit that and take a look if you'd like, uh,
because it really does show that we need office space here.
ITEM 6c COMPREHENSIVE PLAN DOWNTOWN AND RIVERFRONT CROSSINGS
PLAN - AMENDING THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN TO INCLUDE THE
DOWNTOWN AND RIVERFRONT CROSSINGS PLAN.
Throgmorton/ I ... I'll actually come back to this point with regard to the Riverfront Crossings
plan amendments to the Comprehensive Plan, but not right now.
Hayek/ But you raise a good point though, Jim, I mean, and ... and um, I mean, obviously since
we're ... since we're talking about incentive packages, you know, provide incentives
where you think the market is amiss or where there's a ... a dearth of something, uh, or
there's some other public good to be, uh, pursued, um ... and you don't want to do that, or
it's not necessary. Um, and so ... obviously something we need to watch closely.
Dobyns/ Well, Jim, I was thinking when you were saying, when you asked the staff to put
together a fourth option, what would be at the Gilbert-Court site if there is not TIF? I ... I
think that was your request, if I recall, um, I took a look at it. It was nice because that
was sort of the null hypothesis (both talking)
Throgmorton/ Right, exactly!
Dobyns/ Um ... and you know to me it was insufficient, I mean, to me that's what City staff's best
guess, um ... what the market would provide without incentive. Do I understand that, I
mean, I just want to make sure, Jeff, that I understand... was that a reasonable way of
thinking about it?
Davidson/ We worked very closely with the financial institutions in town, Rick, and you know
they've indicated to us that they are not interested in financing speculative office space at
this time, that that is something that they basically look to see if the applicant has some
kind of deal worked out with the City because that's just too speculative for them, uh, at
the present time.
Dobyns/ I was also taking a look at the size of the building, as well, and I wanted something with
a, you know, broader scope, um, in that area and, you know, and you may differ with me,
but that helped me because (mumbled) null hypothesis and when I started thinking about,
um, incentives, which I guess is what, you know, TIF is, that's when I started feeling
better about utilization of TIF for that area, when I saw the null hypothesis for me, just
didn't, you know, rock my boat.
Fruin/ And If I can just jump in on that, um, you know, remember that there were several
proposals that didn't make the short list for the College and Gilbert, and a few of those
proposals didn't request TIF assistance. So you can go back and ... and look at those to
see what type of development, uh, perhaps would have occurred if you just put it out to
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 5
the highest bidder, cause there was I think two that had no TIF assistance, and then, uh, a
third that requested a little bit of assistance with the MidAmerican substation, but um,
no ... no, uh, no other financial assistance.
Dobyns/ And I can't speak for Susan, but that's why I brought it forward, um, from the original
ten, because I didn't think those ... were substantive enough and (both talking)
Mims/ ...would agree.
Throgmorton/ I ... I didn't mean to draw attention to the College and Gilbert Street site,
but ... with regard to these questions...
Dobyns/ Oh, no, I understand — the generalization because I need this discussion to kind of think
about later (both talking)
Throgmorton/ ...make me think of one thing, the ... the null hypothesis that we, that the staff gave
us in that, uh, in a very useful memo was for, um, C135, but in the memo, staff indicated
that it would be coming back to us with a request to rezone to CB 10, and ... and that, in
my assessment, would dramatically enhance the market value of that particular site, and
alter the ... the merit, potential merits, of the null hypothesis. But we never had a chance
to really (several talking)
Dobyns/ Right, I... yeah, I get that. (several talking) ... CB 10 we would have had a different null.
Throgmorton/ Yeah.
Fruin/ Sorry to jump in, but just ... I ... I think that's why it's important to look at those other
proposals, because the RFP did specifically mention, um, that we anticipated that to be
CB 10 (both talking)
Dobyns/ ... still what we got.
Fruin/ And ... and some of those proposals for ins ... I know one was a 15 -story proposal that
didn't request any ... any TIF assistance. It was a student housing project, but, um, you
know, we did speculate on the CB5, for the purposes of that memo, but if you go back to
the root of it and the ... and the RFP which was clear in the CB 10, uh, designation, or at
least the thought that it would be CB 10, I think you get a sense of what ... would have
been proposed there.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, I ... I think it still cold have influenced how people thought about those
alternatives, that we ended up looking at. But I don't want to make a big deal out of that
right now.
Hayek/ Okay. Uh ... we're on the, um ... uh, the, I don't... Item....
Throgmorton/ (mumbled)
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 6
Hayek/ ...7. Should ... do we want to wrap up with that and move on to other agenda items? Do
you have more questions on... on...
Throgmorton/ Not on 7.
Dilkes/ Can I...
Hayek/ Yeah, Eleanor?
Dilkes/ There's an error in the agenda, um ... the ... the Comp Plan can be discussed at the work
session. (several talking) It can be.
ITEM 4d(3) RISE FUNDS FOR THE PROPOSED MOSS RIDGE ROAD -
RESOLUTION DECLARING THE CITY OF IOWA CITY'S
APPLICATION FOR RISE FUNDS FOR THE PROPOSED MOSS RIDGE
ROAD FROM IOWA STATE HIGHWAY 1 TO MOSS RIDGE CAMPUS
AT RAPID CREEK PRESERVE
Dobyns/ Jeff? Can I ask about 4d(3) — that's, um, uh, just a question (several talking in
background) the, um, Moss Ridge campus, um, the RISE program. Um, I thought that
was great. What else have we used that ... those funds for in the past?
Davidson/ Most ... most recently to pave 420th Street out to the industrial park. Uh (both talking)
we used it in previous, uh, times to fund, uh, portion of the construction of Scott
Boulevard. Again, access to the industrial park. Uh, Heinz Road, uh, I believe was paid
with RISE funds. So it's all ... the RISE program is all about job creation. Um, it's all
about, and as you know the Governor's priority right now is, uh, job creation, so...
Dobyns/ Okay.
Davidson/ We think our chances are, uh, pretty good, hopefully.
Dobyns/ Okay.
Champion/ Maybe doesn't realize the (mumbled) bring jobs. The Governor.
Payne/ On that project that Rick was just talking about with the road going back there. I noticed
that on the plans it looked like there was about ... I'm going to say 640 feet between this
new intersection and the proposed intersection of the Oakdale Boulevard. That's like a
quarter of a mile right? Tenth ... tenth of a mile, little over a tenth of a mile. Seems pretty
close together. Are we going to have a problem with those two intersections once we put
Oakdale in?
Davidson/ Um, yeah, we think for, you know, by the time you get into this portion of Highway 1
the speed limit will come down, um, we think, you know, quarter mile is certainly the
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 7
minimum amount of spacing. You know, I ... I'll be perfectly honest with you, Michelle,
if we were to start over with a clean sheet of paper, we would probably try and clean up
the access control in this corridor, but it just sort of evolved over time in a manner, uh,
you know, and you've got the industrial users out here. That makes it difficult for access
control because you have a ... bajillion people coming all at once, and a bajillion people
leaving all at once. It makes acc... access control very difficult. So in... in retrospect,
historically it could have been done a little better, but I do think we have a ... manageable
situation. Uh, MPOJC has taken a look at traffic service along Highway 1, with the
additional intersection. They modeled it, and as long as we can get enough turn-lane
capacity on the highway, which Iowa DOT will require in order to grant the permit, we
think we have a manageable situation through here.
Payne/ And ... when that was studied, it was studied with increased traffic flow on Oakdale
Boulevard in the next 20 years?
Davidson/ Right! That's part of JCCOG's (both talking)
Payne/ ...40 years, 50 years...
Davidson/ ...JCCOG's background model of arterial street traffic was part of that assessment,
with then all the potential trip generation of the lots of Moss Ridge campus factored in.
Payne/ I mean, I just would think that somebody would have done that same thing with
Kirkwood College on Lower Muscatine Road and look at the problem that we have.
Davidson/ Well...
Payne/ You know, you ... best laid plans, obviously, but you know, this is something to me big!
(laughs)
Davidson/ Right, and you know, obviously on Lower Muscatine Road you have access every 60
feet or so in terms of all the driveways and the intersecting streets, so ... you know (both
talking) certainly an order of magnitude better.
Payne/ Okay!
Davidson/ But I don't think you'll see a lot more access points, new access points.
Payne / And hopefully no traffic congestion in my lifetime.
Davidson/ Well, as I mentioned (laughter) when ... when you have an employment campus
(several talking) everybody comes at once and everybody leaves at once. That's a very,
very difficult situation to manage traffic -wise.
Payne / Right! Right.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 8
Dickens/ In the long run it's probably going to help traffic, cause they have right now it's just
one access point. So...
Davidson/ Yeah, it'll actually help Pearson traffic. We've (both talking)
Payne/ Oh!
Davidson/ ... indicate to Pearson that (both talking)
Payne / Right...
Davidson/ ...that that's the case.
Payne / Right. I ... I mean I think that will help them. I'm just thinking of...of once Oakdale
Boulevard's there and those two intersections are so close together and ... and then you
have that traffic and then you have the Oakdale Boulevard traffic and ... (several talking)
Progress! Exactly!
Dickens/ It's gonna be a few years in between the two probably.
Davidson/ Anything else on this item?
Hayek/ Other agenda items?
Throgmorton/ Oh, yeah, but ... but not on that.
ITEM 4d(5) CEDAR RAPIDS POLICE RANGE USAGE AGREEMENT -
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE CITY OF IOWA CITY TO ENTER
INTO AN AGREEMENT WITH THE CITY OF CEDAR RAPIDS TO
PROVIDE FUNDING TO EXPAND AND UPGRADE THE CURRENT
CRPD RANGE AND GUARANTEE CERTAIN USAGE RIGHTS WITH
THAT FUNDING.
Payne/ I have one on 4d(5) which is the ... police range.
Dilkes/ Can I ... can I just comment on that one before you ask your question? I'm ... I'm going to
ask you to defer that, urn ... we don't have an Exhibit A. Um, and I haven't seen it
and ... PD hasn't seen it so ... we'd like you to defer that until, um, February 5th. Um, in
addition, there ... I think there needs to be some change to the indemnification provisions.
So, you just need to remove it from the Consent Calendar and move its deferral.
Hayek/ Somebody handle that? (mumbled)
Dobyns/ 4 ... that was 4d what?
Hayek/ 4d(5).
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 9
Dobyns/ Okay.
Payne/ So should I ask my question or should I just wait?
Dilkes/ If it ... if it's something that... substantive that you think I need to pay attention, you
might ... you can ask it now.
Payne/ I ... here's my question. You can ... somebody can just say if they want to answer it. What
percentage of the total project is the $100,000 that we were putting in, and if the
MAO ... MOA is for 25 years, that's about $4,000 per year. If we only use it four times
per year, which is the minimum, that's $1,000 per use, and my question was is that ... is
that good ... good spend of the $1,000? That was... basically the question.
Dilkes/ That's probably a Geoff question.
Fruin/ Yeah, I ... I don't know what percent of the total cost is, Michelle, but I can tell you our
police staff for years has tried to find a solution to this range problem that we've been
having, looking at developing our own or partnering in different, uh, areas. Uh, looking
at private services, and this by far and away was the most financially, um, I guess
acceptable, uh, solution. So we feel very ... very good about the cost. The other thing, uh,
that this agreement includes is free participation in their police academy. So when we get
new hires, um, we can take advantage of their academy, which saves us $5,000 roughly
per officer, and you know, in a given year ... we just, I think we just sent four officers to
the academy. Um, just last month. So ... uh, that adds up quick. So there is a little bit of
an outlay and there will be ongoing (coughing, unable to hear speaker) percentage of the
maintenance costs, which haven't been identified yet. Those are called to be identified, I
think, in ... after year one, uh, but we feel very good about it, especially comparing it to
some of the alternatives we looked at. Which is ... developing it ourselves primarily.
Payne/ And ... and sending the officers there, was that for the whole 25 years that's ... that we
have the agreement? I don't remember from reading it. Or was it just for a few years
or...
Fruin/ No, the ... we ... we anticipate long -term use of the facility.
Payne/ Okay.
Fruin/ Yeah.
Payne/ Thank you!
Hayek/ I see somebody offered us the equivalent of a time - share, uh, privately held (laughs)
Fruin/ Yeah, yeah.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 10
Hayek/ (mumbled) locally.
Fruin/ Yeah, but that gives you an idea of what ... what the private market would cost to ... to go
out there and ... and there's the, you know, also just the benefits of partnering with the
other agencies and keeping those communications open, um, and some of the training
opportunities that you get with, uh, inner - agency, uh, set -up like that.
Hayek/ Okay.
Champion/ And, Michelle, when you weren't here, on the Council yet, we did try to develop our
own rifle range or shooting, whatever you call it. And it was really difficult. Just finding
the land and then ... getting people around the land to agree was ... it was a real hassle! So,
they have one (laughs)
Hayek/ Other agenda items?
Throgmorton/ Matt, I have a very quick question with regard to Item 11, the midnight deadline
(mumbled)
ITEM 11. ENTERTAINMENT VENUE AMENDMENTS - ORDINANCE
AMENDING TITLE 4, ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES, CHAPTER 5,
PROHIBITIONS AND RESTRICTIONS, SECTION 8, PERSONS UNDER
THE LEGAL AGE IN LICENSED OR PERMITTED ESTABLISHMENTS,
SUBSECTION B, TO MODIFY THE TIPS TRAINING TO
ACCOMMODATE THE NEW STATE I -PACT PROGRAM; AND TITLE
4, ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES, CHAPTER 5, PROHIBITIONS AND
RESTRICTIONS, SECTION 8, PERSONS UNDER THE LEGAL AGE IN
LICENSED OR PERMITTED ESTABLISHMENTS, SUBSECTION C TO
ALLOW THOSE NINETEEN YEARS OF AGE OR OLDER TO REMAIN
IN ENTERTAINMENT VENUES UNTIL CLOSING. (FIRST
CONSIDERATION)
Hayek/ Right!
Throgmorton/ ...that one. Uh, there's a reference to four entertainment venues that, um, have
very good PAULA ratios. I was just wondering what the four entertainment venues are.
Fruin/ Uh, the Mill, Blue Moose, Gabe's, and Yacht Club.
Throgmorton/ The Mill, Gabe's...
Fruin/ Yacht Club and Blue Moose.
Throgmorton/ ... club ... thanks!
Fruin/ Uh -huh.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 11
ITEM 6g CONDITIONALLY REZONING ROBERTS DAIRY / HY -VEE GROCERY
- ORDINANCE CONDITIONALLY REZONING APPROXIMATELY 7.79
ACRES OF LAND LOCATED AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF THE
INTERSECTION OF NORTH DODGE STREET AND PRAIRIE DU
CHIEN ROAD FROM MEDIUM DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY (RS -8),
NEIGHBORHOOD PUBLIC (P -1) AND HIGHWAY COMMERCIAL (CH-
1) TO PLANNED DEVELOPMENT OVERLAY- COMMUNITY
COMMERCIAL (OPD- CC -2). (REZ12- 00026) [Discussion only at formal
meeting] PASS AND ADOPT)
ITEM 6h VACATING THE RIGHT -OF -WAY ROBERTS DAIRY / HY -VEE
GROCERY - ORDINANCE VACATING THE RIGHT -OF -WAY FOR A
PORTION OF ST. CLEMENT STREET (VAC12- 00005). (PASS AND
ADOPT) [Discussion only at formal meeting]
ITEM 6i PRELIMINARY PLAT ROBERTS DAIRY / HY -VEE - RESOLUTION
APPROVING THE PRELIMINARY PLAT OF ROBERTS DAIRY
ADDITION, IOWA CITY, IOWA. (SUB12- 00012)
Hayek/ Um ... HyVee has requested deferral of...Item 6g, 6h, and 6i until February 5. If
somebody could, uh ... make a motion when we get to there, and I'd just make one motion
for all three.
Dobyns/ Can you say those again, Matt?
Hayek/ So 6g, h, and i.
Dobyns/ Thank you.
Payne/ They're ... in order alphabetically?
Hayek/ Yes. (laughter and several talking)
Karr / And if we could, that same motion you can do it all at once and just accept correspondence
and we'll take care of all three of `em at one time.
Champion/ Okay!
ITEM 12. RESOLUTION ENDORSING THE ICCSD REVENUE PURPOSE
STATEMENT — RESOLUTION ENDORSING THE IOWA CITY
COMMUNITY SCHOOL DISTRICT REVENUE PURPOSE STATEMENT
AND SUPPORTING A POLICY TO ADDRESS SOCIOECONOMIC AND
ENROLLMENT IMBALANCE IN THE DISTRICT.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 12
Throgmorton/ Could I ask a quick question about Item #12? The revenue purpose statement.
First, I ... I really want to praise Matt for suggesting it and for giving us the heads -up in
last week's packet. You know, that this would be forthcoming. Uh, obviously I support
it, you know, very strongly. I do think it creates an opportunity for us to, uh, assist the
District in its efforts ... by explicitly addressing how we can achieve better socio-
economic balance among Iowa City's neighborhoods, as well as among neighborhoods
throughout the School District. Through, you know, some kind of negotiated thing with
North Liberty and Coralville. So ... I ... I would encourage us to be thinking about that,
probably to hold a work session, focused on that.
Dickens/ I went to that comprehensive school improvement plan, advisory committee, meeting
today and there was a lot of information that was brought up. Not ... not only on that but a
few other things, about their report card and everything, so...
Hayek/ Is that... something you want to forward to all of us to look at? Would it be helpful?
Dickens/ Yeah, I'll give it to ... I'll pass it on to Marian.
Throgmorton/ Great!
Dickens/ There's about 50 or 60 people there this afternoon.
Dobyns/ I had a chance to talk with, uh, Geoff Fruin just a ... a bit ago about some of the issues,
since we're, uh, this is about the diversity, um, vote for the School Board. Um...
regarding some of the downstream affects, uh, that can occur you know should the...
(mumbled) go forward, in terms of the collaboration between cities and the School
Board. Um, and I think, Geoff, you did a really nice job of mentioning some things, uh,
some of which I knew about, most of which I'd forgotten, um ... that for me can really
help in the narratives I'm having with, um, people out in Iowa City who are asking me
about, you know, what we're doing here as a Council, what I'm thinking about
individually, in terms how we can, um, best facilitate, um ... you know, in the future going
forward, having, uh, diverse neighborhoods, in the City of Iowa City, so we don't put,
um, current schools and future schools, um, especially elementary, in the position of
having to gerrymander, um, and uh, you know, I thought that would be not something for
discussion today, but I don't know, Geoff, where that might work in, uh, but I was really
impressed about, you know, some of the things that we've done in the past that, and the
City staff is looking, you know, forward to working with the School Board in terms of
making sure that, you know, if the diversity vote goes forward, that it's not high- handing
fruit, um, that it's not difficult to obtain. So I ... I just wanted to mention I had the
conversation about what a city can do and what they can't do. Thought it was very
helpful!
Champion/ We worked a lot on, um, some diversity in town, and I mean, it'd be nice to talk
about it at a work session sometime, but the things we are doing we have (mumbled) no
more low income housing can go for instance. I mean, we've actually done a lot. We
can't undo what's been done, however.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 13
Dobyns/ Uh -huh.
Hayek/ Well and I would ... I would contextualize that against what I would suggest is a ... a fairly
broad array of things we have done and are doing all under the neighborhood stabilization
strategic plan item, I mean ... um, whether it's housing policy or ... investments in
infrastructure, um, or redevelopment of certain commercial areas or, um, University
program. I mean, there's... there are so many things — parks! Urn ... there's a lot that we
are doing right now that I think ... is indicative of the City's commitment to ... um, to our
neighborhoods.
Dobyns/ Uh -huh.
Hayek/ Um... you know, and as to your... your point, Jim, it's a good one, and... and my
experience is that ... that a more regional approach has been suggested (both talking)
Mims/ Yeah, that's what (mumbled)
Hayek/ ...has at least to date been resisted.
Throgmorton/ I totally understand that. I think I fully understand the complexities of this. Um,
but if ..if we want to assist the School District, in difficult challenges they face, we need
to take some initiative to try to open up a conversation with North Liberty, with
Coralville (both talking)
Mims/ I agree.
Throgmorton/ Again, to ... to try to work through this in a way that we would all find mutually
satisfactory. That ... that's hard! I mean...
Mims/ Well, and they might be more amenable to it now than they have been in the past. I think
we've got people from those communities who, you know, are saying, you know,
housing policies have caused some of this and so ... they might put some pressure on those
councils to be a little bit more open to some discussion of some regional plans.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, and that's probably (both talking) housing policies, but it's in large part
housing markets. And... and... social preferences, if you will, uh, so ... the housing
markets kind of lead to certain income stratification, all right, unless there are other ways
of modifying that. And there are tools that could be used. I'm not going to advocate `em
right now, but you know, that's the conversation I think we should have.
Hayek/ Well it's interesting, you know, the ... the School's issue is, um, you know, what's hottest
right now, um, but it ... there are similarities between that and ... other, uh, regional
growing pains we've encountered in recent years, whether it's with economic
development practice or shared services with our Animal Shelter or something else.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 14
Um ... and so the ... broader context is, uh, how we interact as a region, even as a one end
of a corridor region.
Throgmorton/ So one of the things I was wondering is whether we might want to consider, um,
bringing this before the MPO of Johnson County, the urbanized area policy board, you
know, this thing that we all sit on, or most of us sit on. See if we can, uh, construct a
conversation within that context. Maybe there's a better context (mumbled)
Hayek/ Yeah.
Throgmorton/ ...advocate just...
Mims/ Yeah, I think sometimes... start of those conversations are better, um ... you know, maybe
between city managers and city administrators, where you can start some conversation
that's not in the public. I think sometimes you immediately constrain yourselves when,
plus ... plus then people are, you're talking about elected officials in a situation where they
can't commit for other elected officials and so to be able to just get some sense of where
people might go through staff might be a better place to start (both talking)
Dobyns/ ...take their temperature first and see if (both talking)
Mims/ Yeah, that might be a better place to start, but um ... I think we need to think about it, talk
with staff (several talking) what they think the approach should be.
Hayek/ ...yeah, or materials from Terry and, this is a (several talking)
Dickens/ ...cause the School system's growing at like 200 ... over 200 per year.
Mims/ Yep!
Dickens/ Like 2,500 over the last ten years so it's...
Mims/ Yep.
Dickens/ ...it's a pretty substantial growth. It's a good problem to have ... yet. (several
responding)
Mims/ But it's still a problem!
Hayek/ I ... on this issue, I'll give some, just ... anybody should feel free to chime in and I don't
know who will be here to ... address us, if anyone, but I'll just give some brief comments
(noises on mic) portions of that (noises on mic) the RPS and the ... and the policy.
Dickens/ And I wasn't asked to be on this, as a Member of the Council; it's ... it was cause they
needed more men (laughter) so...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 15
Throgmorton/ Well you fit the bill, huh? (several talking and laughing)
Dobyns/ You're just a joiner, aren't ya?
Mims/ (several talking and laughing) ...needed another white male?
Dickens/ ...needed some more meeting!
Dobyns/ Come talk to me after the (several talking and laughing)
Hayek/ That's why Terry (mumbled) (laughter) Other agenda items? Okay, uh, let's move on to
the Landfill redesign strategy.
Landfill Redesign Strategy 08):
ITEM 8. LANDFILL FY09 CELL RECONSTRUCTION PROJECT — PLANS,
SPECIFICATIONS, FORM OF CONTRACT, AND ESTIMATE OF COST
FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE LANDFILL FY09 CELL
RECONSTRUCTION PROJECT, ESTABLISHING AMOUNT OF BID
SECURITY TO ACCOMPANY EACH BID, DIRECTING CITY CLERK
TO PUBLISH NOTICE TO BIDDERS, AND FIXING TIME AND PLACE
FOR RECEIPT OF BIDS.
Fosse/ Hi there!
Hayek/ Hello! (several responding)
Fosse/ (mumbled) talk about the Landfill again! Uh, with me tonight are, uh, Dave Elias our
Landfill Superintendent and Dan Scott is our Staff Engineer that's been assigned to the
Landfill for a number of years now. So they're here to help field questions, and uh,
our ... our clean-up is complete and now's the time for reconstruction. So what we want
to do, uh, tonight is we first of all, on our agenda tonight is the, uh, agenda item for
holding the public hearing on the project and then approving plans and specifications so it
can go out to bid, and our objective for the work session here is to inform you of some
design decisions that we made, and then also to, uh, share with you about the bid options
that are apart of this project, so that you can begin to frame up, uh, your decision that
will come on February 19th, uh, when we award the project, and we're doing this tonight
to give you a... some time to think about it, ask additional questions, and also, I'm going
to be out of town on February 19th, so we want to (laughter) get through this this evening.
Um ... we're gonna have a mix of slides here, some of them from the August 21St update
that we gave you, and those will be identifiable by the Howard R Green logo that you see
on it. So when you see slides with that logo, you'll know you've seen those before. The
others are all ... all new slides. Um ... and in that update in August, uh, there were ... there
were a couple things that were laid out there as design decisions that needed to be made.
One is how big will the cell be reconstructed, and then what material do we use for that
drainage layer, and that's the bulk of what we're going to talk about this evening. So
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 16
let's ... let's begin by talking about that extent of reconstruction. This is one of the things
we talk... we talked about briefly in August, and let me get my mouse (noises on mic)
here. What we've done is ... is you can see the outline of the original cell and what we've
done is identified two break points in here that are natural break points, based on the ... the
leachate collection system that ... that is out there. And we ... we needed to decide are we
going to rebuild the full area, or some smaller version of that. Now the ... the smallest
version is ... is really too small to be of any ... any good use for us. Uh, rebuilding the full
version might actually be too large if we move forward with the Fiberight option, uh,
which at...at the present time looks promising. So far we've not hit any significant
roadblocks with that. There may be some out there, but we haven't found `em yet. And,
if we overbuild, that brings with it operational problems and ... and uh, odor problems that
can be difficult to deal with. So, what we have landed on is this intermediate option of
reconstructing 5.4 acres. Now the downside to this option is that if we don't move
forward with Fiberight, we'll be doing another project to expand this cell sooner than
later, but of...of the two downsides, you know, having the operational odor problems or
having another project sooner than later that the... this... that's an easier thing to deal with
— having another project sooner than later. So...
Payne/ And when you say sooner than later, do you mean in three years or do you mean in 10?
Fosse/ Two to three years.
Payne/ Okay.
Fosse/ Yeah. Not 10. And ... yes, okay. And ... so then the ... the next question is, uh, what sort of
materials that we use for the reconstruction of this, uh, did we reuse the tire derived
aggregate or do we use some sort of a natural aggregate that ... that's not combustible.
And, uh, you know, the answer to that question is ... is not that easy, and so what we've
done is we've packaged this project to bid it a couple of ways, uh, using either material
and then we can also factor price into that. And, what I want to do today is ... is, or
tonight, is look at the details of the project and in doing so we'll look at some of the
advantages and disadvantages of each of those materials and ... and see, um, what all goes
in ... into that question. Um, to do that, um, I ... I want to begin by showing you that cross -
section. You've seen this before, but we've corrected the vertical scale on that so it's
more ... more two - scale. This is the landfill liner system. I'll just refresh you on that.
We've got the native soils down there, at the bottom. We have a drainage layer
underneath the liner to manage the upward gradient ground water that's out there. We
don't want that trying to get into the cell. Then we have a four -foot layer of compacted
clay and on top of that compacted clay is a... a two -layer synthetic liner. The bottom
piece is the 60 mil high- density polyethylene. It's like a thick sheet of plastic. And then
on top of that is ... is a geo- textile, which is just a synthetic fabric, uh, that helps provide
some drainage on top of that. And then above that is the ... the drainage layer. And in this
example here it's 12- inches of the tire derived aggregate, and then above that is the select
waste, and that first layer of waste that goes on is called select waste, uh, the reason you
need to be picky there is you don't want items, uh, that are long and sharp that might
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 17
penetrate the... the synthetic liner here. So for instance you wouldn't want a swing set in
that first layer of garbage. That's what ... that's what we mean by select.
Throgmorton/ So how ... how do you ... select out? I mean, I've taken stuff out there that's long,
sharp, and hard.
Fosse/ Yeah.
Throgmorton/ So, uh ... I ... wouldn't the bulldozers movin' stuff around, how do you select out?
Fosse/ The operators just have an eye for that. They look for that sort of thing and ... they'll pull
that out. They pull appliances out. They pull different things out... out that aren't
supposed to be in there on a daily basis and ... and they're especially vigilant for that first
layer of garbage that goes in there.
Champion/ How deep is the first layer? When you talk about that first layer.
Fosse/ Roughly ... six to eight feet. Is that accurate, Dave? Okay, six to eight feet. (several
talking) So (noises on mic) let's go ahead and ... and step through the process of the
reconstruction and look at exactly what we're going to do here (noises on mic) so I've got
that cross - section in the upper quarter here and then pictures in the mid -part. Get some
coffee cause it's ... this is kind of dry. (several talking and laughing) Oh, okay!
Throgmorton/ Nascar water! (laughs)
Fosse/ Well what ... what you see out on the site right now is ... is all the materials been stripped
off down to the top of that four -foot clay liner. So we've moved all the ... removed the...
the fire debris as well as the remnants of that synthetic liner, and as a minimum we need
to remove and replace that top two feet of compacted clay. Uh, partially because the
...the clay's been compromised by the fire. Some of it's vit ... vitrified, is ... does, it's
more permeable than it should be, and then also because of the winter, we're going
through freeze /thaw cycles right now and that compromises the integrity of it, and
what ... we'll talk about more how that fits in later so ... as a minimum, the entire site will
be stripped two feet and then we'll put in a new two feet of compacted clay. And, in
some areas we know we're going to need to go deeper than that. We're going to need to
go all the way through the four foot liner and into that granular drainage area, and
reestablished the ... some of the pipes down there that we know are ... are damaged, and
also to clean out some material where we know that the, uh, the pyrolytic oils penetrated
all the way through that four -foot liner. We've identified those areas of exploratory
digging and then running cameras into the, uh, pipes that we have down there. So we'll
have some full depth reconstruction, as well. Uh, the next step ... once that clay is
reestablished is ... is to replace this synthetic liner. As I talked, it's ... it's a two -layer
system, and then on top ... oh! And then in addition to that, on top of the synthetic liner
goes the...the, uh, leachate collection piping system, and all of that will need to be
replaced, as well, out there. So those ... those pipes'll be replaced and what you see in the
bottom here is ... is kind of a layout, a skeleton layout, of ..of where that collection
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 18
system goes. And then the, uh, the drainage layer, and the first option that I want to show
you is the ... the tire derived aggregate, which is what we used last time and ... and what
I'm showing here is that there's a variety of products that are made out of tires, and I just
wanted to show you a few of `em there. Um... it, they use it in asphalt products, uh,
Astroturf, you know, that black stuff that in between the little fake grass in there, uh,
playground systems have a built -in mulch and then, uh, tire - derived fill, tire derived
aggregate is a use that we have out at the landfill, and we use that for the ... the drainage
layer, uh, because of some of the physical properties that we talked about. Um ... to ... to
illustrate how we want to do things different, I want to begin by showing you how we've
done it in the past. You know, houses burn down but we rebuild them out of wood. Uh,
but we do it differently because the ... the building code is refined each year to reduce that
risk, and that's sort of the approach that we've ... we've taken here is how can we reduce
the risk related to the tire derived aggregate for use at the landfill. So I'll begin by
showing you the way we've been doing it since 1998 and that is that ... that when you
build a cell, you ... you put all of the tire derived aggregate out there and the liner system
is complete before any garbage can go in there, and that's... that's a lot of vulnerability
laying out (coughing, unable to hear speaker) there. And, our fire, unfortunately for us
but for ... fortunate for the industry is ... is been a game - changer from a regulatory
standpoint (laughter) in that, uh, they'll allow garbage to go on that as ... as the tire
derived aggregate is placed, so you don't have that exposure out there. Um, what we've
done in the past is ... is once that down ... is down, you start dumping garbage right out of
the trucks and then you're pushing it out onto the tire- derived aggregate, and our guys
watch for hot loads every day. Uh, because that ... that's the nature of the business.
You're... you're concerned about that when you're filling the top of the cell, just like you
are when you're filling the bottom of the ce ... cell. Uh, but as we saw with ... with the
liner system, you're particularly vulnerable to a big fire, if that catches... catches on fire.
Uh, at the end of each day, uh, the ... the fill is covered with a ... a, uh, temporary cover
material, a spray -on cover, and it ... it's a water -based system, so everything is visually
inspected at the end of the day and because that is a water -based system, if it goes on
something that is above 212 degrees, you're going to see steam come up there. That...
that helps them identify things. The ignition point for tire derived aggregate is ... is 550
degrees, roughly. Um ... as I pointed out, the ... the big difference, uh, in what's proposed
in these plans versus the past is that, um, the DNR will come out, they'll inspect our liner
system after we get the synthetics down, and we'll get our approval then. And then the
aggregate, tire derived aggregate, can go down, and that can be followed with that select
garbage that goes on there ... right away, and one of the things that ... that will be a
component of this select garbage is that it... it won't be stuff that's come in that day. It's
stuff that'll be on -site for, uh, weeks actually. So we know if there's ... if there's a hot
load it's... it's... it won't be hot anymore at that point. So that'll be a component of that
select aggregate. Or excuse me, select fill. Uh, another component of this is ... is, as I
showed you earlier, is this drainage system and over the ... the drainage tiles, we're going
to bring that ... that regular aggregate all the way to the surface of the drainage layer. So
we will compartmentalize those tire derived aggregate areas, if you will. Have some
firewalls built in to it.
Mims/ How wide will those be?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 19
Fosse/ Those will vary from, uh, I think about 30 feet here to about nine feet at the narrowest.
Sound right? Okay! And one of the other things that ... that, uh, works in favor of reusing
the tire derived aggregate is, not all of it burned up! We still have about 6,400 cubic
yards of that that we were able to ... to save from the fire out there, and that's about
enough to do over half of... of what we need out there. If you do the math that seems
counterintuitive, but two things I want to point out is that, you know, we're rebuilding a
smaller area and then the ... the last design included additional thickness of tire derived
aggregate to protect against frost penetration, because remember you ... you can't let the
liner freeze or the clay loses its integrity. By building in the placement of the garbage,
with the construction of the fill, that ... we're building our insulation layer in with that. So
that's... that's another key difference. And ... um, so ... that's pretty much it for the tire
derived aggregate. We feel that ... that we've done a good job of managing the risks here
and we feel pretty comfortable with that. However, we recognize having been through
what we've been through that no matter how well the risks are managed, it may be not
...it may not be a risk that you want to take. So because of that, we're ... we're doing
other options out there and that is, uh, the use of sand or aggregates. Excuse me, I'm
startin' to run out of voice! Now one of the problems that we have in ... in Iowa here is we
don't have good aggregates for landfill construction, and that is our aggregates are
predominantly limestone- based. We don't have igneous or (away from mic) in Iowa,
and ... and what happens is ... is the leachate, the pH in the leachate, uh, from the garbage
dissolves the limestone component in that and ... and causes problems for us, and here's a
good shot of that. It ... it's in the regulations that you don't want to use a limestone -based
aggregate, um ... we ... we did have some in the past. It's just in the sands that are out
there. Sands, uh ... because there is so much limestone in Iowa, it's also in the sands, and
we had an area where we didn't have ... the drainage system was malfunctioning. We
dug it up and what we found is this area that ... that was aggregate is now like solid rock
out there. It has been changed by the leachate into a large rock, and also it...it gets into
the leachate collection system and ... and recalcifies and turns into rock inside the pipes,
as well. So it's ... it's a very real problem. We've experienced it first -hand. So what that
means for us is that for these aggregates, if we want to go the aggregate option, we need
to probably look outside of Iowa to get those materials. Um ... we had, oh, I wanted to
point out another... another point is that in 1991, we did our first lined cell and this was
before the ... the regulations about the ... the limestone and all. We used sand out there,
and one of the problems you have with that is that once you get on the slopes, the sand is
not very stable. You know, you put that foot of sand on top of that ... that slippery
synthetic liner and it just does not stay there. Um, and that'd be a problem today as ... as
it was back then. Now what we're doing to ... to counteract that is if you recall, we're
going to have them put in that first lift of garbage right away, so that that will hold that
sand in place, that we don't need to count on that staying up there for a matter of month
....months and surviving, uh, rain storms and that ... that sort of thing.
Hayek/ Could it still shift underneath the layer of garbage?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 20
Fosse/ We hope not! It's ... (laughter) I suppose that is possible that it...it can slide on there, but
once ... you know, once you get the ... that first layer and you're pretty good, and then once
you fill in between that, we're very comfortable with that. Um...
Payne / And if you use the ... tire derived aggregate, there's not such a big chance of it slipping, as
there is...
Fosse/ No! That's... that's one of the really nice physical properties of the tire derived aggregate
is it performs very well on the slopes. It, you know, it's got a good co- efficient of
friction. It's inter - locking, uh, nature of the materials just makes it very stable for that.
So the ... the plans and specifications are going to ... have three materials that are possible
to use in this ... in this, uh, drainage layer. So the base bid is going to include the tire
derived aggregate, with the, uh, with the safety features that we talked about, and that
base bid estimate is ... is about $1.67 million. And, the ... the next option is using a sand
that's got less than 15% limestone in it. Um, there may be some sources in Iowa where
you can get that, may not. We don't know for certain yet, and then, uh... if a contractor
finds it, we've got to verify that by testing and ... and do so throughout the construction
project.
Mims/ I was going to ask! (laughs)
Fosse/ Yeah, cause we've gotta be very careful about that...
Mims/ Yeah!
Fosse/ ...cause we do know the consequences. Uh, if they're able to find sand in Iowa, so
there's not a lot of transportation costs, uh, we think it'll add about $111,000 to the cost
of the project, or about 7 %. Uh, if they're unable to do that and need to go out of state to
...to get a quartzite or dolomite aggregate, uh, that would come from Wisconsin or
Minnesota or South Dakota. I think there's some in Nebraska, as well. Uh, we estimate
that that'll add about $625,000 to the project costs, or about 37% is another...
Dobyns/ What was the percentage difference in, um, the lime and those rocks potentially? I
mean, is it like 5% or...
Fosse/ Well the ... the difference between the...
Dobyns/ I'm trying to get a sense. You're looking for a different perca ... percentage in different
rock of limestone material, just so it won't ... be problematic with, um, acidification?
Fosse/ Uh -huh. So you're looking at the cost difference?
Dobyns/ No, I'm just looking at the percentage ... I mean, is it worth it, I mean ... I mean, you're
talking about the difference between ... I'm hearing numbers like 16% or 10 %. I'm going,
okay, so what's the sensitivity analysis would that... is that really a big deal in terms of,
um, the future formation of calcium carbonate, uh, type materials?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 21
Fosse/ The ... the threshold that our designers putting out there is 15% - if less than 15% of the
material is limestone, then we should be okay.
Dobyns/ We're ... uh, okay. All right. Okay, except for slopes, but ... we're okay, right?
Fosse / Right.
Payne/ That's a different problem though! (laughs)
Dobyns/ Okay. Got it!
Fosse/ Stability problem. So, again, our options are the TDA, sand, or a ... a quartzite or dolomite
aggregate, uh, that would probably come from outside the state. And ... and we're bidding
all three options, uh, so that we'll ... we'll be able to make the decision that we want to
make on the 19th, and ... and staff will come to you with a recommendation, uh, based on
the prices and the risks that are out there.
Hayek/ But preliminarily you anticipate a 7% and a 37% (both talking)
Fosse/ 37% difference.
Hayek/ ...difference for options ... uh, B and C, basically.
Fosse / Right.
Hayek/ (coughing, unable to hear speaker) Okay.
Fosse/ So, it is a tough decision, and uh, you know, we ... we welcome your inpoi ... input on
the ... the risks, risk tolerance, uh, for that sort of thing out there. Uh, one thing that we do
not have at the landfill is ... is a water supply. You know, the water that we ... that we
dealt with the fire with out there was ... was trucked in. Uh, we are working to, uh, extend
the water supply out to the landfill, but that's unlikely to be in place prior to the
construction of this.
Payne/ We can't drill a well?
Fosse/ We do have a well, but it's ... it's got quite low production. It's pretty slow!
Payne/ And obviously garbage can still catch on fire. It's just the ... the size of the fire and how
long it would take to burn out, right? I mean, even if you use sand, garbage can still
catch on fire.
Fosse/ That's correct. It's just unlikely to spread as quickly as what we saw, and is ... is easier to
put out, you know, tires ... once they get going are very difficult, as we know, uh, to put
out.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 22
Hayek/ Are you going to give us a recommendation at some point, whether now or after we get
the bids?
Fosse/ Yes, we will!
Dobyns/ So if you used the medium option, not ... not the big replacement, not the small, but that
line you drew.
Fosse/ Yes.
Dobyns/ I'm ... I'm trying, in my head ... is it like a $200,000.... what... what would be the total
cost of that with, um, option sandstone and option, um, tire fill?
Fosse/ Well the ... well the estimates that I outlined for you are based on that intermediate size.
That's...
Dobyns/ Right.
Fosse/ ...it's not for that full reconstruction.
Dobyns/ Right, right, I know that but what's the differential in cost between tire fill option and
sand fill option?
Fosse/ Oh, okay. Um, the difference between the tire and the sand is $111,000 (both talking)
Dobyns/ Okay, right.
Fosse/ ...roughly 7 %. And the difference between tires and ... aggregate is ... roughly $625,000,
and that's a tough thing to estimate, because we are trying to figure out what
transportation costs are and (both talking) it comes by truck or rail or barge or some
combination, that can all impact the prices.
Throgmorton/ Rick, if I understand you, you ... you have told us the risk of, um, the,
um... aggregate material, whether it be tire or whatever catching fire and then spreading
and becoming a big problem as ... would be minimal in any of the three cases that you've
suggested to us.
Fosse/ In the, well, we'd only be using the tires in the one case. If (both talking)
Throgmorton/ Right, so there wouldn't be a ... a spreading fire problem for B and C.
Fosse/ Correct.
Throgmorton/ Potentially there could be for A but there ... you've said that you would, you intend
to section them off with these barriers. I've forgotten what you called them.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 23
Fosse/ Yes.
Throgmorton/ So there's... you're telling us that the risk that the ... a fire, the aggregate would
catch fire and then spread would be minimal.
Fosse / Right, and ... and more importantly than the ... than the barriers that we're putting in there
is that the tires, the tire derived agger... aggregate would be covered by garbage as it goes
down, uh, leaving a minimal area exposed and the garbage that goes in that first layer is
stuff that's been on site for a period of time so we're not concerned about a hot load.
Champion/ What causes fires at the landfill? I mean, how does a hot coal get into garbage?
Fosse/ Dave, do you want to field that one?
Champion/I mean, I don't have hot coals!
Fosse/ Keep in mind that we take garbage from all over Johnson County, rural areas, uh, people
have burn barrels.
Champion/ I see. Okay.
Elias/ Yeah, the ... there's only ... I've only come up with a couple of...of possible scenarios and
...and we have ... have uh, seen people drop off an old, uh, burn barrel or a charcoal grill
that they thought was out and ... and put it in a garbage sack or something like that that...
that it looked like it was covered up and nothing was happening, but once it gets a little
oxygen then it...it can start up again, and then other scenario would be, uh ... uh, an
oxidizer and an ... and an organic compound, say, uh ... oil and ... and chlorine bleach or
pool ... pool, uh, chemicals or something like that, coming from two different loads and
...and if they would come into contact then they can start combustion also. So ... it's hard
to say what ... what actually started it.
Champion/ That's amazing!
Dobyns/ Can we revisit what happened last spring on, I think it was a Saturday, wasn't that when
the hot coals were applied at the landfill? Um ... what exactly did they, did the hot load as
far as we can speculate, the hot load went directly on a bare patch of tire fill or did it go
on, um, already existing garbage?
Elias/ Um, it...it was, uh ... since we were just starting to ... we were in the process of filling this
cell for the first time. We had ... I, you know, I believe we had covered about five ... five
or five and a half acres out of the 14.7. So it ... we had a, sort of a moving front, a
moving, working face every day.
Dobyns/ Was that the margin where (both talking)
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 24
Elias/ ...the margin that was ... right between the fresh garbage and ... and the bare tires, and so it
was a Saturday afternoon, um ... it would have been, uh, most likely if anything, not a
...not a commercial truck load but ... but uh, small self - haulers and um, you know, from
what we can tell it was, uh, probably something that was placed in there towards the end
of the day because it was very near the outside face.
Dobyns/ So if we used tire fill this time, and we had this ... I mean, you're subdividing this, these
concrete barriers into small subsections. I assume you're going to be very intentional
about putting this select garbage on there, or this entire area, so ... covering it up so any
future garbage that might be hot would never go on tire fill directly. I mean, it'd be
separated by ... at least some select garbage? I mean, that ... that's (both talking)
Elias/ Exactly.
Dobyns/ I'm hearing that's going to be the operational change in how we apply garbage.
Elias/ Right.
Champion/ And the garbage is going to sit. It's not going to be new garbage. It's going to be
old garbage! (laughter)
Dobyns/ Old garbage, and (mumbled) garbage, Connie. I've always suspected old garbage!
(laughter) But the, um ... uh, but the water application, or this watery material that steams
up, is that a new operation or is that something was a previous operational...
Elias/ We've been doing that for ... for a number of years, as a replacement for covering it all
with soil. (both talking)
Dobyns/ Why didn't that work on that Saturday?
Elias/ Um, it was, you know, the wind was in the right direction, it was close to the ... to the, uh,
the tires, um...
Dobyns/ Okay.
Elias/ ...it got its ... it got its oxygen, uh, if it would have been placed right at the end of the day,
it...it apparently hadn't stoked itself up un ... until couple hours after we were gone.
Dobyns/ Okay. So it wasn't because it was a Saturday. It was just ... that's always done at the
end of the day.
Elias/ Right! Right.
Dobyns/ Or... okay. Whatever day.
Elias/ Yeah.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 25
Dobyns/ Thank you.
Hayek/ Isn't there a risk that, um ... I mean, in the case from last summer it was ... a hot load close
enough to or maybe in direct contact with the TDA that caused the fire, but what about
just the risks of a hot load igniting garbage? Um...
Fosse/ That's a risk that we do fi ... face every day.
Hayek/ Face that every day, regardless of the approach.
Fosse/ Yes!
Dobyns/ But garbage doesn't buil ... bum for weeks! I mean, necessarily. It's the tire that's the
problem.
Fosse / Right.
Mims/ (both talking)
Fosse/ ...there are some ... there are some landfill fires that do get going for considerable periods
of time that just the garbage (several talking)
Hayek/ How many, I mean, do we ... how often do we see, uh, landfill fires involving t ... burning
TDA in the industry?
Champion/ Mmmm...
Fosse/ (mumbled) (laughter)
Hayek/ Us?
Mims/ We're it! (laughter)
Fosse/ Yeah, now we've been using TDAs since 1998, so we've got 14 years of experience in
putting it in the ... the way that ... that I showed you earlier. Um, so you know, we have a
range of options available to us here, and one is, uh, on one end of the spectrum is we
can ... we can reuse TDA, uh, with ... with the safeguards, additional safeguards built into
it. At the other end of the spectrum, we ... we could say that, you know, given the
magnitude of what happened, it might be worth a half million dollars to us to ... to go, you
know, to eliminate that risk. Um ... another thing you might consider is ... is that water
supply. You know, the ... the safeguards that we've designed for the TDA, maybe they're
appropriate for the next landfill cell when we have water out there and ... not for this one.
Payne/ Is ... is our insurance agent going to say if you use TDA we're going to charge you more
for a premium? Than if you use an aggregate?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 26
Fosse/ I don't know the answer to that question. I don't. Geoff, any speculation?
Fruin/ Uh, no, I wouldn't ... I wouldn't venture to guess on that, but, um ... I suppose we did hear
back from the insurance, um ... Travelers Insurance. We got the official letter today, and
um... it was their finding or their opinion that the leachate collection system in the landfill
cell were not covered, um, so there was some ... there was some additional coverage for
Napoleon Park where we had some expenses in ... and ... and we've got some general
pollution control policies that appear to ... will take effect, but to direct that to your
question, Michelle, um, you know, if their position is that it wasn't, uh, covered in the
first place, I don't know if we'll ever know, you know, if the ... the risk or the use of TDA
would uh, increase the cost of the premium because we haven't been paying that
premium according to Travelers, uh, to date.
Payne/ Okay.
Fosse/ It ... where that insurance differential might show up is in the contractors insurance, and
that would be reflected in the bid, because contractors insurance covers it during the
construction phase.
Dobyns/ But after it's constructed we're essentially self - insured?
Fruin/ Well, we'll certainly be reviewing, you know, we still have to evaluate Travelers'
response and, um, if we come to the determination that we ... we end up agreeing with
their analysis, um, then we're going to have to look at our coverage and see what it costs
to ... to add the landfill cell going forward to the insurance policy, and I think ... I think
certainly we want to do that, and I assume that Travelers would insure that for the
appropriate cost. But it's ... it's too early to say what that is.
Payne/ And typically you pay more for something that's a higher risk, so ... if you looked at that
as being a higher risk, you would ... pay more.
Fosse/ That's right, and if you recall our conversations at the ... at the budget, uh, earlier this
month, we talked about cash reserves and the ... and the magnitude of the cash reserves, at
the landfill, because the risks associated with that business.
Hayek/ Cause I would think that would be relevant to our cost benefit analysis and it would seem
to me to also be relevant, you know, if we're talking about making, you know, selecting
TDA versus a more expensive approach, I assume we're making, you know, once we go
that route, we should assume that future such cells would entail the same approach, um,
so if your ... or maybe not!
Fosse/ Not necessarily. We're not locking ourselves into a path in one direction or another.
That's a decision that can be made on a project -by- project basis.
Hayek/ Well, all...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 27
Payne / So, one...just one more question if I can.
Hayek/ (mumbled)
Payne/ So that part that we're ... that we're not probably going to develop right now, that extra,
those acres that were towards the top of the page.
Fosse/ Uh -huh.
Payne/ Could we develop that ... let's say we use, we decided not to use TDA now, but when we
go to develop that we can develop that using TDA, even though they're right next to each
other, or would that one have to be the same because they're next to each other?
Fosse/ They do not have to be the same.
Payne/ Okay.
Champion/ And how would water have helped? Can you put out tire fires with water?
Fosse/ Not very effectively. And not on the scale that we had out there.
Champion/ Right!
Fosse/ Not when the whole thing was going. Now we did, on the flare -ups that we had
afterwards, we ... we were able to control those with water. Uh, because they were on a
smaller scale. And we were able to put those out.
Fruin/ And, Rick, I would assume that you need the water to mix in with the chemical foams that
would perhaps be effective on smaller tire fires. Correct?
Fosse/ That's correct.
Fruin/ You need to ... you need to mix those two to use `em so...
Fosse/ And all of our pumper trucks are equipped for foam application.
Hayek/ All right. We ... probably oughta keep moving here.
Fosse/ Okay.
Taxicabs — Independent Owner - Operators:
Hayek/ So, uh, very good, uh, report. Thanks! Tough decisions in front of us. Um ... looking
forward to taking that up again. Let's uh, move on to, urn ... uh, potential, discuss
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 28
potential regulations of owner- operator taxi service providers. There's a memo at IP3
from the 17th
Karr/ What you have, uh, before you is an, a memo from Eleanor, myself (noises on mic) on, uh,
laying out the basic information on how we currently regulate them. We are, um, giving
you this as a background in advance of your discussion and ... we do not, we've not had
any interest nor, uh, any recommendations at this time to regulate them. But ... thought
this would answer some of your questions.
Champion/ I noticed in the memo ... let me see if I can remember correctly. That ... the person
who's applying for the license doesn't have to own all the cabs, isn't that ... wasn't that in
there? (several responding) And ... but they have to be insured by them? (several
responding) Okay. I just want to clarify that.
Karr/ It goes back to the company. The company itself is responsible, yes.
Champion/ Okay!
Dobyns/ So if an independent driver, um, had just one vehicle (mumbled) nice vehicle, um...
how many cars do they have to have to be a... four? Four cars. (several responding) To
be a business, and then they can ... make the color whatever they want.
Karr/ color is off the table right now. Color is (both talking) deferred indefinitely.
Dobyns/ All right, that is. Okay. All right.
Karr/ But with four cars, then they would have the responsibility of being a business, the
insurance (both talking)
Throgmorton/ Well, if... if...I understand what you mean about color being off the table
indefinitely, because that's what we, uh, decided to do. Um ... but ... but the only issue
that the independent owner- operators raised really had to do with color. A uniform color.
Dobyns/ Right.
Throgmorton/ So...
Payne/ Well I wouldn't say it was the only issue. It was their major issue.
Dobyns/ Uh -huh.
Throgmorton/ I think they have bigger issues, uh, that have to do with the entire topic of taxi
regulation. Uh, but the one that really bothered `em, I agree, was ... was color, because it
might harm them and really undermine their ability to continue doing their work with
their car for their ... the companies they're working for. So ... uh, if color's off the table,
do we need to do anything?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 29
Champion/No. You ... you're right!
Dickens/ Cause the regulation (mumbled)
Mims/ Question is do we want to come back, I mean, do we feel a consistent color is important,
and I think there's a lot of people (both talking)
Champion/ ...probably is.
Mims/ ...think it is ... for identifying, you know, what cab company they're actually, you know.
Payne/ I think we should do it like New York City and they all have to be the same color! And
not any color that's out there now. (laughter) Then they all are on equal playing field.
Throgmorton/ I like the variety myself, as far as that's concerned.
Champion/ I was, just a question... quick question. These independent cab drivers that we're
concerned about are concerned about having to paint their cars because it's expensive.
(several responding) But how are they insured if our ... policy says the business owner
has to have the insurance?
Dilkes/ We ... we check that, and you don't have to own a vehicle in order to get insurance on it.
We do, the business (several talking) the taxi cab business owner does provide us with a
Certificate of Insurance with all the vehicles that his company is using, whether that be
by lease or by ownership.
Champion/ Okay, great! Thanks, Eleanor!
Throgmorton/ So I would think if we ... if we really want to have uniform color by company, then
the ... the only question really has to do with transition from the way things are now, for
independent owner- operators, the question has to do with transition from the way things
are now to some uniform color situation, you know, so then ... then the question becomes,
well, how long should this transition take, uh, are there any other issues that they would
need to be, uh, alert to and might ... might want to bring up to us, and then that makes me
think that they should be involved in any discussions about, uh, the parameters of a
transition, just like the taxi companies were involved in the design of the amendments in
the first place. But if...if...if it's completely off the table and we're not talking about
transition, then there's nothing to do.
Dobyns/ I don't know how many ... I don't have a good feel for how many of us ... are, feel
strongly about having homogenous color for ... taxis and don't, so I ... I don't ... know if
it's an issue. I'm ... I'm kind of equivocal right now, but I'm not sure what the rest of you
think.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 30
Hayek/ I'm trying to make sense of how this all comes together. I mean, if...if...if color is the
issue for these independent operators, because it's the most expensive thing you would
have to comply with as a ... as a cab driver, then they want to ... they want some sort of
exception from a color scheme, were we to enact one.
Throgmorton/ At... at least for a while, yeah.
Hayek/ Yeah, and ... and ... I don't know that I'd be comfortable with... something that treats the
cab companies one way, but provides an exception for... for independent operators. I
suppose we could undo our definition of business, you know, uh, and ... and then treat
anybody... basically get a ... get rid of the four ... four-car rule, and treat `em all the same.
I'm not sure we want to do that. I ... I'm having a hard time (both talking)
Champion/ It's difficult! It's a difficult problem to solve, because (feedback noise on mic) what
we have here is we have, um, Big Ten football, and that brings in a lot of strange cabs. A
lot of `em, and we're trying to avoid just people coming in town. We don't know
anything about them. We just have a cab, maybe a cab from Chicago or Cedar Rapids,
but it says "taxi" on it. We don't know who's driving that cab! Whether they're insured
or what's gonna happen! I mean, I think it's ... I think that's a major problem in this
town, and ... they made another suggestion that I thought was quite worth thinking about,
my own brain by the way, which isn't very good, that all cabs driving in Iowa City
needed to have Johnson County license plates. Or at least Iowa (mumbled) plates. Be
registered in Johnson County. That would eliminate a bunch of people just coming in.
Then color might not be so important, but I personally like the idea of each cab having a
color theme. But I also want to support these independent cab drivers. But that's the
price of doing business, I guess!
Hayek/ Well you can support ... we ... we essentially do support `em in that we allow them to
contract with a business to be part of their stable, and they only have to meet the
requirements of a good driving record and a chauffer's license. And we don't impose
upon them these safety or administrative regulations that we impose upon the businesses.
I think the hitch here is that these businesses pass along, or apparently pass along some,
or maybe most of these obligations, and the ... painting your car is the one that hits their
wallets the hardest.
Payne/ Well, and today they might drive for one ... and tomorrow they might drive for another
one. And then they have to repaint their car. I mean, and that was part of their concern,
you know, I spend $2,000 today to repaint my car and tomorrow he says you're not going
to drive for my company anymore and he, you know, he essentially probably out of
business if he doesn't have $2,000 to paint his car over again.
Champion/ Well ... it's a tough one.
Throgmorton/ Rick, are you suggesting, uh, that we ... we should not ... uh, not concern ourselves
with uniform color? Right now, full stop?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 31
Dobyns/ I'm trying to ... figure out the options. I've got options where all companies the same
color, like New York, so ... they don't have to change color cause there's only one color
in Iowa City. Um, all the way to a second option where each company has to have its
own color scheme, within that company, to allowing, you know, taking that... so the
answer's no, Jim, I'm just ... trying to figure out. I've got, uh ... pros and cons to all three
(coughing) I can't figure out which one weighs better.
Hayek/ You know, do we ... do we ... first of all I think we'd be sticking our hands in a hornet's
nest to consider going to a uniform color for everybody (laughter)
Payne/ I was actually being factitious. If, I mean, if... (several talking)
Hayek/ ...looking at you. I didn't see your sarcastic (laughter)
Dobyns/ I'd like to include the range of all options, even though...
Payne/ It is an option but it's maybe not a good option.
Hayek/ But if we have these other things, you know, the decals, the ... the dome, lit domes,
um... and the other things, you know... if the... if the safety thing really comes down to
being able to identify a cab...
Dobyns/ As a cab.
Hayek/ ...that you had a bad experience with. Do we get there with the signage and the lit
dome? Or do we need...
Karr/ You made some (both talking) you made some, uh, provisions, uh, along those lines, in
addition to, um, a common cars and better lettering and some other type of things in
your ... at your December meeting, and those haven't gone into effect. They'll go into
effect this licensing year. Um, you might just want to leave it alone this one year. Let
the other changes go into effect. See how it goes. It's the only thing that you didn't
enact at the request of the companies.
Dobyns/ (both talking) ... incrementalism.
Karr/ So ... we'll find out! We ... we've changed ... we've changed (several talking and laughing)
Dobyns/ That's my credo! (laughter)
Karr/ I mean, bear in mind that any taxi business can implement upon itself a color scheme.
Totally! (several talking) ...it's their choice of running a business. They can do it
without...
Dickens/ ...defer for one year color (several talking)
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 32
Karr/ Well, you don't have to defer. There's nothing on the table.
Dickens/ I mean just ... we'll talk about it after we see what happens for a year.
Karr/ Let's see how it goes! (several talking)
Hayek/ Kick the cab down the road?
Dickens/ Kick the cab down the road! (laughter)
Hayek/ I've been thinking about that (several talking and laughing)
Dobyns/ ...a very nice compromise!
Dickens/ Second, second!
Mims/ Yeah, I think ... given our options, I think that probably makes the most sense at the
moment.
Champion/ Yes. We can't treat them differently than anybody else.
Mims/ Well, and it gives the independent owner- operators a, you know...
Dobyns/ A little wiggle....
Mims/ A little wiggle room and it gives us the time, like Marian said (several talking) to kind of
look at...
Dickens/ ...next year so they ... they, start saving your pennies now cause it could be a year we
might go to a color scheme but...
Dobyns/ Get that pink paint! Right?
Dickens/ Get it ready!
Hayek/ (several talking) ...I just don't think we've got the stomach to keep dealing with these
cab issues, at least in...
Mims / Right, we've got other things to look at.
Throgmorton/ Let's move on!
Hayek/ Okay!
Dickens/ ...almost as long as the chickens! (laughter)
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 33
Hayek/ (several talking and laughing) those too, Terry?
Dickens/ Yes, I think all chickens should be...
Hayek/ Okay!
Throgmorton/ Matt, uh, I think maybe I misunderstood something about the agenda. Uh...
Hayek/ Sure!
Throgmorton/ (several talking) ...am I right in understanding that we ... we should discuss the,
uh, or we can discuss the Comp Plan amendments now?
Dilkes/ Yes!
Throgmorton/ ...having to do with the Riverfront Crossings plan?
Hayek/ Yeah.
Throgmorton/ Could I bring that up, cause actually I had, I don't know, three questions about it?
Hayek/ Sure, sure!
Dobyns/ Where was that in the, uh, agenda?
Dickens/ 6c.
ITEM 6c COMPREHENSIVE PLAN DOWNTOWN AND RIVERFRONT
CROSSINGS PLAN - AMENDING THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN TO
INCLUDE THE DOWNTOWN AND RIVERFRONT CROSSINGS PLAN.
Dilkes/ It's 60 (several responding)
Throgmorton/ Let me ... let me find my notes here. They're somewhere down here.
Payne/ That rhymes with...
Throgmorton/ Yeah, I have a question and some con ... concerns. So the question is, has ... has,
the first question, has to do with the boundaries shown on the map. Uh ... they differ from
the one, the ones we recent... recently adopted for the TIF district, as shown in Item #7.
Uh, especially ... I mean, I noticed especially with regard to the College and Gilbert Street
site, so ... was that an accident or what?
Davidson/ No, the ... the Comp Plan amendment that you have before you this evening that we,
Bob gave the review of at the last meeting, um, has been in the works for a long time,
actually predates the...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 34
Throgmorton/ Right.
Davidson/ ...College- Gilbert stuff is just ... it's one of those things we've been working on it
when we have time. Um ... as Geoff pointed out earlier, the RFP, which you approved for
College and Gilbert, does state that we contemplate this being part of the downtown and
having CB 10 zoning. Um ... but we did not make the leap to ... at the staff level say that it
shall be part of downtown, and it shall have CB 10 zoning because that's subject to a
legislative process that ultimately you all will determine. If...if that's the case or not. So
we didn't want to be presumptuous so that will be a subsequent amendment, that
legislative process, and potentially amending the Comprehensive Plan and the zoning
ordinance will be something that you consider once that development agreement is put
together, and we figure out, you know, we basically take what's contemplated from
concept to specific plan, and you know, given ... at the present time ... cause I think this is
kind of where some of your discussion is going, um ... staff feels like we have been
directed to negotiate with the developer, based on the proposal as it's been presented.
And, if there's any modifications or changes in Council's philosophy or thinking about
that, we obviously need to ... to have that, so that we can negotiate accordingly. But to get
back to your original questions, Jim, and I apologize for providing additional background
there, but uh, we did not want to presume what is ultimately Council's decision on
whether or not that site is part of downtown.
Throgmorton/ Right. Okay. So ... so I do have three ... three concerns I want to bring to you. Uh,
thanks, Jeff, cause that helps. So first the ... the um ... downtown and Riverfront Crossings
plan anticipates that the downtown will gradually expand southward. Not eastward. And
it anticipates that the tallest buildings, new buildings, would not exceed 15 stories. I just
observed that, okay, and so there's a difference there between the ... the plan that we're
going to be considering tonight and the action we took two weeks ago. The second thing
has to do with the plan's yield analysis. Remember, there are, I don't know, two or three
tables (mumbled) remember exactly how many, I mean, I guess there's one for each of
the district. (several talking) So, uh, The Chauncey, which was not anticipated in the
analysis, right, would supply a very large fraction of the new office commercial space
anticipated in the plan for the downtown and south downtown districts, a very large
percentage. Roughly 45% of all the new space and 130 %...130% of new office
commercial space anticipated for the downtown, the Downtown District, would be...
occupied by The Chauncey. Also, if you just think about the south downtown, south
downtown district, uh, instead of the downtown, roughly 18% of the south downtown
district's total new building space and 47% of its office commercial space would be
occupied by The Chauncey. So ... that's odd!
Hayek/ South downtown, meaning south of Burlington?
Throgmorton/ That's the ... well, it's the district bound... bounded by Burlington (both talking)
Hayek/ ...the subdistrict.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 35
Throgmorton/ Yeah, a subdistrict.
Payne/ But The Chauncey isn't south of Burlington. So I'm not following your logic.
Champion/ Yeah that's what ... I'm confused by that too.
Throgmorton/ ...here's a project that was approved or ... we gave a go -ahead to two weeks ago
that's going to be ... implicitly part of the downtown, uh, Riverfront Crossings plan. It's
not included in it yet. But the project itself, the amount of...total amount of space
contained in that project, and the amount of commercial office space contained in that
project, will be equivalent to a very large percentage of what we anticipate for the
downtown and the south downtown districts. All right? So it ... (both talking)
Dobyns/ So you're suggesting with the Gilbert Court as is that we've already, um, satisfied a lot
of our previous need for (both talking)
Throgmorton/ We're consuming a lot of previous... previously identified need in one project that
lies outside the boundaries of the ... of the downtown, uh, Riverfront Crossings plan.
Dobyns/ So maybe we need to, um, going forward need to think about ... maybe we need to
change our anticipated need south of downtown. Is that what you're...
Throgmorton/ Uh, maybe. I know ... uh, I know Jeff probably has something to say about this,
but I wanted to bring up one other point, and... cause... cause I (both talking)
Dobyns/ I just wanted to make sure I understood you (both talking)
Fruin/ Jim ... Jim was kind enough to send these questions to us, uh, in advance today, and thank
you, Jim, for doing that. Um ... and so Jeff and I will probably tag team on this. A ... a
couple of things regarding the yield analysis. We want to be careful not to interpret a
yield analysis to be a market analysis. Those are two very different things. If you look at
the ... what the yield analysis does and how it...it...it picks specific lots. So when you
look at that table, it'll say DT12, DT20, DT26. Those are talking to specific lots, and
what a yield analysis does is it tries to, um ... convey to the reader what the potential is on
those particular lots. So it's very geographic- driven. It is ... it is not a market analysis
which would look at a region and say here's what the region can support. It's a land -use,
um, analysis type of tool so.
Throgmorton/ The plan also implies ... that those are sites that are likely to be rebuilt,
redeveloped. And ... and are encouraged in the plan. Right?
Fruin/ Right, yep. I think what ... what I guess I'm trying to convey, Jim, is the ... the yield
analysis talks about what those land uses can support and tries to put those in a parameter
of what a development structure might look like so...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 36
Davidson/ The College- Gilbert parcel will add to the ... the yield analysis. I mean another way of
looking at it would be it you were a farmer and you had an 80 -acre field, you could
calculate based on bushels per acre what your yield would be. If you add 10 acres, then
that's additional yield. Okay? And College and Gilbert will be additional yield for
downtown. Now, what Geoff s alluding to is the market's ability to absorb the sale or
lease of those units, and I think that's what you're trying to get to, Jim, and it is true that
if you assume there is a set amount of ability for the market to absorb those units, the
creation of additional units on College and Gilbert may diminish some of the ability of
downtown and Riverfront Crossings to absorb those units. What's a bit of a wild card is
the creation of new economic activity, okay, College and Gilbert parcel, then increases
the market's ability to absorb, because you have more people downtown who may be
working in office space who...
Payne/ Need more restaurants.
Davidson/ ...need more restaurants! Who need, yeah, whatever, so ... but I will tell you that it is
accurate, and I believe one of the statements you've made in the information you sent us,
Jim, it is accurate that we ... we know that because College and Gilbert is perceived right
now as ... being more advantageous economically than some of the Riverfront parcel...
Riverfront Crossings parcels, which we believe will be eventually very desirable, but
aren't quite there yet. We know for example that there were people who you'll recall our
RFP on the Court and Linn parcel, who did not respond to that because they were waiting
for this one! We know there were at least three or four proposers that would have
otherwise been interested in College and Linn that weren't, excuse me. Court and Linn
(several talking in background) that weren't because they were interested in College and
Gilbert, and so that was I think one of your points, Jim, is that we've diminished that
demand in Riverfront Crossings by virtue of marketing this parcel.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, that ... if.. if I could. That's really the punch line I was going to get too, and
basically by subsidizing The Chauncey now ... we will be making it much less likely that
the area south of Burlington Street will develop in the short-term.
Champion/ I don't think so!
Throgmorton/ Especially at the corner of Clinton and Burlington. In the short-run. Now in the
longer run, that's what you're talking about. Maybe it'll stimulate market demand.
Maybe there'd be new stuff, and you know, so I ... I ... nobody can really foresee that, but
in the short-run I'm pretty darn sure it'll undermine the plan before it's even adopted.
Hayek/ Okay. Now (mumbled) that's an interesting, uh ... uh, perspective. I'm glad ... glad to get
your ... your feedback on that.
Champion/ But it's my understanding that ... the Riverfront Crossings is divided into parcels, and
all this stuff is per parcel. This is what we think this parcel can have, or you called it a
different name, Geoff, but...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 37
Fruin/ It's the yield analysis component of that plan, yeah.
Champion/ Yeah.
Payne / And we ... we're doing zoning different south of Burlington, such that this ... I'm just
going to say corner A in the plan may show that it's going to be office space, but when
we get going, it may be better off to be ... um ... some kind of housing.
Davidson/ We contemplate some downtown scale zoning immediately south of Burlington
Street, such as the Hieronymus Square parcel. But once you certainly get south of Court
Street, no, we would expect it not to be as (both talking)
Payne / And it's just going to be what the market wants in that location at that specific time. Is
that my understanding?
Davidson/ Well, the plan has tried to anticipate the market.
Payne / Right.
Davidson/ But ultimately, yes. Ultimately the market will have some...
Fruin/ Can I make one comment about the ... the height of the building? I think that's... that's an
important point just ... I know you're aware of it, but just to drive it home. Um ... you
know, the Riverfront Crossings in the ... in the yield analysis mentions what perhaps the
height of certain buildings would be. Um, and I think the tallest was 15, referring to the
Hieronymus property. Um, I ... I think it's, again, important to realize that ... that's pretty
much the cap that we're working with right now, given the FAA restrictions. And so,
um, the ... the study would take that into effect, and that's still the cap that we're working
with on College and Gilbert. Until the developer can go out and prove to us that the FAA
will, you know, give such an exemption, we've got to work within their existing system.
So, um ... I think we want to be careful when communicating that this is going to be a 20-
story building. We don't have that authority to grant that, even if you wished to right
now. And the second thing is, we still have to negotiate, and it's at the concept stage and
depending on how negotiations go, that could come down. So even if the FAA said,
yeah, 20s okay, that's ... that may not be where we end up. Hard to say at this point.
Davidson/ We aren't going to execu ... we aren't going to bring a development agreement to you
that reflects a 20 -story building unless we know the FAA is going to approve that.
Throgmorton/ Matt, is this a point where, uh, you and I had a really good conversation, uh,
several days ago. Is this, and one of the things we talked about is ... how we probably
need to give clear guidance to the staff about what we think they need to push in their
negotiations, uh, should we dedicate a work session to that?
Champion/ (mumbled) working on it now! (laughs)
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 38
Hayek/ I mean, we could! Um ... we, you know, I think you were also ... you were going to wait
and talk to Tom when he gets back, um, and maybe we should do that first, um, and then
...and then figure out what the next step is, whether it's a work session or something else.
I don't have a good answer for you.
Davidson/ There is time for that. The ... the City Manager has asked us to wait for his return for
having the internal staff discussion. Um, the developer's then going on vacation for three
weeks, so...
Hayek/ Okay.
Davidson/ ...it'll be basically a month before anything substantial happens with the negotiating
with the developer.
Dickens/ Should we send our concerns or ideas or anything to you any time then?
Champion/ My problem with that is we don't think what we're talking about is the amount of
TIF money we're willing to give this project. And I ... I don't think I can come up with
that figure. I think that's a matter of what the project can support, what we have to add to
it to make it work. I mean, so I don't want to get into that, what I think staff should be...
Hayek/ (several talking) ...let's do this, and I'm ... I want to interrupt here because we ... it's
already 6:30. We've got to make some quick progress on the ... on the rest of this. Jim,
why don't we wait until Tom gets back, talk to him, figure out the next ... the appropriate
next move, uh, for the organization, if you guys are (both talking)
Davidson/ Geoff, I'd really like to meet with Tom. (mumbled) I think I was trying to set up a
meeting and then I learned he was out of town (both talking)
Fruin/ Sure! We'd be happy to coordinate that.
Council Appointments:
Hayek/ Yep! Okay, so we'll do that. I'm glad you brought us back to the agenda, cause I
realized we forgot to do our appointment for Board of Adjustments. Um...
Throgmorton/ Becky's great!
Champion/ Yeah, I didn't write her name down, but she looked good.
Payne/ It's a female so...
Hayek/ Well, we don't have to do a female, but I would agree — she's got a very strong (several
talking)
Payne/ I thought it ... I thought it said gender balance was female.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 39
Hayek/ It expired right before Christmas.
Payne/ But it ... I mean, still if we ... we could still meet the gender balance.
Hayek/ Yes!
Payne/ By appointing her.
Hayek/ So, everybody okay, uh, or supportive of Becky... Soglin? (several responding) Okay.
So, let's uh ... whip through the rest of this stuff. Um ... Info Packets, one January 10th and
one January 17th. Covered a lot... some of this stuff on the 10th already.
Information Packets:
Throgmorton/ On the 10th are, um, the minutes of the Human Rights Commission December 18th
meeting indicate they're going to rec ... make some recommendations to us? Are we
going to receive formal recommendations from them, or ... is there, are there ... do their
minutes constitute the formal recommendations? Do you know, Marian?
Karr/ We ... we're going ... you're talking about the Human Rights Commission?
Payne/ Yes. (several responding) Cause I had the same question.
Karr/ Okay. No action is taken by virtue of the minutes. So I mean, if they're requesting any
separate action, that'll come to you separately.
Throgmorton/ Do ... do they know to forward to us?
Karr/ Yes, they do. (several talking and laughing)
Payne/ So when they ... they listed what their recommendations were going to be? They weren't
the same as what they had in their meeting minutes? I mean, so ... they had in their
meeting minutes two things, and they put two different things in their (laughing)
recommendations that they listed out on their attachment? That didn't make sense to me.
Dilkes/ Why don't you let us find the ... why don't you move on and let us find the minutes and
we'll take a look at `em.
Payne/ And then ... I had on there January 8th meeting minutes, and this was probably kind of
nitpicky, but it says that ... they didn't hold executive session due to lack of a quorum, but
their little chart that shows who was there shows they had a quorum. (laughter)
Karr/ Okay, you're on the January...
Payne/ I'll just show you.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 40
Karr/ Okay!
Payne/ (laughs) I'm sorry!
Hayek/ You're going to get voted off the island here! (laughter)
Champion/ She should have been an editor of some kind.
Hayek/ Um...
Payne/ You know what they call me at work? A pain! (laughter) Go figure!
Hayek/ Oh I love it! (laughter)
Dobyns/ Badadumpbum! (laughter)
Hayek/ Anything else on the January 10th, uh, Info Packet? Okay, we'll go to January 17th
Anything there?
Throgmorton /Thanks to Jeff for the update on, uh, on the Peninsula.
Champion/ Yeah! (unable to hear other person speaking away from mic) It's really building up!
(several talking) Oh yeah! (several talking)
Hayek/ Okay, uh, any Council time items?
Dilkes/ I've got the, I'm sorry, I've got the Human Rights Commission minutes that Jim was
asking about. Yeah, it...at the top they list the recommendations to Council, and...
unless they choose to do that more formally, um ... (unable to hear, away from mic) Oh,
yeah, I think they understand that the acceptance of the minutes does not make a
recommendation have effect, but it ... I think your question was, will they ... do they
consider this the making of a recommendation? Yes, I think they do.
Throgmorton/ Ah, so we should have it on an agenda somehow then.
Champion/ Wouldn't they formally bring it to us?
Dilkes/ They may chose to. I ... I don't know.
Payne/ So basically ... my question was, we don't have to take any action. We're waiting for
them still to take another action to bring it to us.
Dilkes/ No. They have made a recommendation in their minutes. They may be ... they may have
a plan to make that recommendation more formally to you, or they may not.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 41
Hayek/ Why don't we just check? And ... (several talking)
Dilkes/ I think we can check with Stephanie and see if they plan any other ... more formal
recommendation. (several talking)
Council Time:
Hayek/ Okay. Any Council time items? Any pending work session topics?
Payne/ I have a Council time thing that really is part of the ... it was part of our packet for this
week ... that, they talked about in ... oh, where is this? Parks and Rec Commission,
December 12d' me ... meeting minutes. They talked about 2013 calendars that they
created with pictures from Hickory Hill Park. That ... this was the first thing ... time I ever
heard of it. How do we get one? I mean ... I mean, I didn't hear any advertising about it
or anything. Is it on the web site or...
Karr/ Well we can check for you.
Payne/ Okay.
Champion/ The Friends of Hickory Hill Park always did a calendar.
Karr/ That's what I'm wondering.
Champion/ That's what I'm wondering ... (several talking) That's what it is! (several talking)
Payne/ It doesn't say that in here, so...
Champion/ And you can buy them at Prairie Lights and (mumbled) several places.
Throgmorton/ Uh, work session topics, Matt?
Work Session Topics:
Hayek/ Sure!
Throgmorton/ If the School Board does, uh, adopt its diversity policy, uh, perhaps we should
schedule a work session topic, uh, a work session item, uh ... uh, having to do with how
we can assist, you know, as I was describing earlier?
Champion/ If they pass the policy ... I would want to wait and see if they're actually going to do
anything.
Throgmorton/ Well the policy is doing something (several talking)
Dobyns/ What's your intent, Jim?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 42
Throgmorton/ To assist the District in achieving the purposes specified in their diversity policy,
if in fact they do adopt it on the third reading.
Dobyns/ All right. What I mentioned before at the beginning, the discussion with Geoff Fruin, is
that, um one of the things the City has done in their planning, I mean, I guess that's, for
me that was very helpful. Um, perhaps that's what you're talking about is hearing what...
Hayek/ You know, I have an idea. When's the next, uh ... strategic plan update scheduled for?
Fruin/ We're due for one in probably February, March.
Hayek/ Cause really this falls under the rubric of neighborhood stabilization, and maybe we
could use that as our... essentially work session, uh, opportunity to discuss as a Council
what we're doing and what we might want to do more of, or ... do you know what I mean?
Dobyns/ Cause (mumbled) because everything you mentioned to me was consistent with
neighborhood stabilization, um, operations.
Dickens / And let them accomplish their policy first and then ... we can look at it ... after it's ... if
they get through the third reading. If they don't ... then we (both talking)
Throgmorton/ ...third reading, yeah.
Meeting Schedule:
Hayek/ Okay, um... anything else on that? Meeting schedule?
Karr/ Um, you have before you a, in your packet, a calendar for April through August, and I've
heard from some of you on some changes we need to make on that, and I'd like ... I have a
proposal to make, if you have your calendars in front of you. Um ... I did not hear a
problem with April or May, and it seemed to match with the absences that I had
indicated, that I'd received from you. Um...
Payne/ You wouldn't make any changes to what you had proposed in April and May?
Karr/ No ... nothing in April and May. Noting that there's just one meeting scheduled in May
because of the absences. Um ... June ... seemed to match which ... with everything as well.
July and August were problematic. Do you wish to take some time now to just go
through some options? Um, July for instance, there's a number of you gone the 2nd, um,
and we certainly could just move it to the 9th. We have ... we have one person gone the
23rd. We could ... it could be the 91h and 301h, or it could be the 16th and 30th ... in July. If
we moved to the 16th and 30th then we could move the August schedule to accommodate
...I think Connie's gone the first week in August.
Champion/ Always! (laughs)
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 43
Karr/ Uh -huh.
Champion/ The first Sunday.
Karr/ So I'm suggesting July ... 16th and 30th ... and August 13th and 27tH
Hayek/ You're going to kill me! I didn't bring my calendar. I checked the dates you sent me
against my calendar, and they all looked ... copasetic to me.
Karr/ Okay. So why don't I ... why don't I just... since, if we're in agreement with April, May
and June, let me mock up another July and August (several responding) Okay.
Hayek/ Thanks!
Karr / And I can send you those. Okay.
Council Invitations /Community Events:
Hayek/ All right. Uh, okay, last is upcoming events, Council invitations. Don't forget, uh,
Kevin O'Malley's (several responding)
Payne/ That's Friday ... (several talking)
Hayek/ ... on Friday. (several talking and laughing)
Champion/ Here.
Throgmorton/ Is there a limit on how much Guinness a Councilperson can drink? Oh, there
probably is. Never mind! (laughter and several talking)
Champion/ And it's from 2:00 to ... (several responding) 1:00 to 4:00.
Dobyns/ Are there going to be remarks (mumbled)
Hayek/ I think they... staff's going to do something. I don't know what the timing is on that.
Dobyns/ Okay.
Hayek/ I think he's kind of coming kicking and screaming to this. He doesn't like (laughter and
several talking)
Payne/ So he may not even show up? (laughter)
Hayek/ He may not even show up!
Dobyns/ So it's going to be fun from 1:00 to 4:00 (several talking)
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.
January 22, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 44
Champion/ He'll send a calculator! (laughter)
Hayek/ Okay! Let's ... get a 20- minute break and come in for the formal.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of January 22, 2013.