HomeMy WebLinkAbout2018-05-15 Transcription Page 1
Item 1. Call to Order
Item la Roll Call
Throgmorton: (bangs gavel) I'd like to call to order the Iowa City City Council regular formal
meeting for May 15, 2018. Be....oh I guess I should do the...uh, item for...one
first. Call to order, roll call please. I wanna make a brief comment and it's really
going to be my own. Uh, I'm very conscious that, uh, the Immigration and
Enforcement Agency, uh, conducted a raid at a particular facility in Mount
Pleasant,uh, that it resulted in the arrest of maybe 30 or so employees. I don't
wanna comment on that. They were certainly doing what they're legally
empowered to do, uh, but what I do want to comment on is the trauma that that
produced among the families, uh, associated with the people who were arrested,
and I just want to acknowledge....that....that trauma happened and I feel grief for
the families who were directly affected and people who are direct...directly related
to them. And, uh....I think, uh....it's not what.....not the way we would have
proceeded, but we're not the agency involved and we have no control over how a
particular federal agency enforces federal law. But I did wanna make that
opening comment.
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Item 2. Student Leadership Awards
Item 2a Robert Lucas Elementary
Throgmorton: From Robert Lucas Elementary School we have three awardees— Simon
Alvarado, Melae Lacy, and Sara Sanders. I bet they're in the room! Come on up,
please! (applause) All right, so let me come over here and get between all you
good folks. So this is the most exciting moment of the evening (laughter) It's the
one that Pauline Taylor, my fellow Councilperson, enjoys the most. Uh, for good
reason, because we see happy parents in the audience and....I think, you know,
we're on TV too, so there are happy people out there in Iowa City land, enjoying
what they see. And, having opp....an opportunity to celebrate with you the good
work that you've been doing. So, uh, we have three awards here. They all say
exactly the same thing, and I'll read the award statement after you read your
speeches. You each brought your speeches, didn't ya? All right! So, we could
begin with Melae. Okay? So....let me scoot over here. So I'm gonna hold this
and you can say whatever you want to say.
Lacy: Good evening everyone. Uh,my name is Melae Lacy and I show positive
leadership at Lucas Elementary by reading to younger children each day.
I play for, uh, I play volleyball for Iowa Rockets and for basketball I play
for Thunder. Um....I....uh.....oh my gosh! (laughs) Um....I study
Taekwondo for(can't hear) Black Belt Academy and I....uh, have a
temporary black belt right now, and...um ....oh, I can't think (laughs)
um.....Mr. Mickunas awarded me to, urn, a STEM program that last for a
week in Loyola University and I will be attending that this summer, and I
would like to thank my parents for all their love, sacrifice, and support
they give for me this year. Thank you. (applause)
Throgmorton: Great! Beautifully done! (applause continues) Well done. I can tell you, you're
the first person who's spoken without a written speech in her hand, or his hand, in
the, what, six-plus years I've been on the Council. So, well done! Okay, so.... .
Sara, you're gonna be next, right? So, do you have a speech?
Sanders: Hello, my name is Sara Sanders. I've been a student at Lucas Elementary for
seven years. I would like to thank the City Council for this honor and my teacher
Miss Dostal for nominating me. My teachers give all students many opportunities
to demonstrate leadership. While at Lucas I participate in peace builders, student
council, reading buddies, helping the first graders and kindergartners with
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reading, (can't hear) club, and safety patrol. Thank you again for this honor.
(applause)
Throgmorton: I thought I heard a City Councilman cheering over here! (laughs)
Cole: Great job! (laughs)
Throgmorton: Okay, Simon, you're next!
Alvarado: Okay, um, hello my name is Simon Alvarado. This award means a lot to me.
Thank you for recognizing me as a good citizen. I think I am a good citizen in the
classroom because I am never late and always turn in my work on time. I always
participate in class discussions or raise my hand during the class, to help out or to
answer a question. And as an example of how I'm an excellent citizen is in my
family. In my family I always take care of my brother by helping him by what he
needs or being in charge of him. In conclusion, I am a good citizen because I like
to take care of things or be in charge. Thank you for this award. (applause)
Throgmorton: All right! (laughs) (applause continues) All right, we'll be able to turn to you
when we need somebody to be in charge. That....that's great! Okay! So, let me
read these....read these awards. They say exactly the same thing, `cept your own
individual name appears here. (reads Student Leadership Award) So (applause)
You probably don't want that sticker! And....I think this should be yours. Can
you take that and take that sticker out of there? I run out of hands. Oh, this one's
yours. Okay! There you go. All right, so I bet there's some happy parents out
there. And you're doin' a great job. You should be very proud of your kids!
Well done! Yeah. All right, so....(applause) on to enjoy the rest of the night.
(applause continues) It's really fun to do that.
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Item 3. Proclamations
Item 3a Kids to Parks Day
Throgmorton: We have a proclamation called Kids to Parks Day, but I don't think there's
anyone here to accept this proclamation so I will not read it.
Item 3b National Police Week
Throgmorton: (reads proclamation) Is there anyone here who can accept this proclamation?
(laughter) (applause) No speech? (laughter)
Matherly: I wasn't sure if I was gonna get cued or not(laughter) new to me! Urn, thank you
very mut...much, Mr. Mayor, and....and City Council. Urn, I will tell you that the
officers of the Iowa City Police Department, and across the state of Iowa, really
depend on the support of their city councils and the community at large, and
proclamations like this really seal that for us, that uh, we know that, um, that...
that folks support us at our daily work, and in the, uh, and in the event that we do
suffer a loss, protecting our community in the line of duty, urn, that they're also
there for the families as well. It's so important, so we appreciate it, and I'll bring
this back and we'll display it proudly! So thank you (several talking)
Mims: Chief, could you maybe just, for the audience, there were a few of us here earlier
today to talk about the event here in the chambers earlier today and what three of
your officers are off doing, urn, working or vacationing on their bikes on the east
coast (laughs)
Matherly: Sure! So today we, uh, honored, uh....um, the, well the, actually our police
chaplains honored us for National Police, uh, Memorial Day, and that
makes...because it falls on May 15'h of every year, this National Police Memorial
Week. So during this time, urn, is a time to reflect, a time to, uh, recognize
and...and have ceremonial, um...um, events to, uh, to honor those that have....who
have passed before us, and again, also the families. So this week in particular in
Washington, D.C., at the National Memorial and Museum, uh, there are tens of
thousands of people there that are doing ceremonies, and we have three officers
there represented, and one of the things that they participated in this week was the
Police Unity Ride, and that ride consists of a, uh, of a bicycle ride through several
states. It's kind of a RAGBRAI on steroids, if you will. Matter of fact our officer
said this is kinda easy cause we're RAGRAIers. We....we know how(laughs) to
do this! And other ones were sufferin', tryin' to get up the hills, but um, this
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event is 2,500 riders. It rides through several states, uh, to Washington, D.C., and
it's, uh, expected to raise $2.6 million for the Memorial and for the Museum in
Washington, D.C., so it's a big event and uh,just today as I watched the
President, um, giving the speech, uh, in front of the U.S. Capitol for....for the
memorial, uh, our Captain Troy Kelsay was shootin' me pictures cause he's there
and so it was kinda cool to see that...that he's actually at...at that event. So...uh,
great event, uh, today with our chaplains honoring us....was.....was a great event.
I had to read my speech (laughs) so I'm impressed that she didn't have to (laughs)
uh, I'm one of those, but urn, we really appreciated that today and....and we do it
every year. So next May 15th, the public's welcome. It'll be 11:00 A.M., right in
this place again. So....
Mims: Thank you very much.
Matherly: Thank you.
Throgmorton: Thanks, Chief!
Item 3c National Public Works Week
Throgmorton: (reads proclamation) Is there anybody named Ron Knoche here who could accept
a proclamation (laughter) (applause)
Knoche: Mr. Mayor, Council, uh, thank you on behalf our hundred and...almost seventy
employees in our Public Works Department and this recognition. Urn, as a....as a
part of National Public Works Week, uh, each year our National APWA, um,
recognizes 10, uh, individuals as top 10 Public Works Leaders of the Year, and
uh, this year Rick Fosse has been named one of those top 10, uh, winners, and so,
um, the Iowa Chapter will be hosting a reception for Rick next Tuesday, uh, from
4:00 to 6:00 at Big Grove Brewery. So you're all more than welcome to come
and attend that. Um, it is a....it is a great honor for Rick, and it's a...another great
honor for our community, and for our state. This....this'll be....I think our fifth,
uh, top 10 winner from the state of Iowa in the past five years, so we've...we've
been doing very well.
Mims: So there's 10 in the nation that are honored?
Knoche: Yes. Top, yes, 10 in the nation. So,urn, you know, we have 30,000 members and
the....in APWA nationally, so...uh, it's, uh, it's a great honor for Rick and, uh,
we're....we're, urn, happy for him. So....thank you!
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Mims: Great!
Throgmorton: So, Ron, uh, for people who are watching on TV or somehow don't know this, uh,
Rick Fosse is a long-time, was a long-time employee of the City of Iowa City, and
a long-time Director of our Department of Public Works. So, we're very proud of
Rick and....it's great news. Yeah.
Knoche: Yep! Thank you.
Throgmorton: Thanks (mumbled)
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Item 4. Consider adoption of the Consent Calendar as presented or amended
Botchway: So moved.
Taylor: Second.
Throgmorton: Moved by Botchway, seconded by Taylor. Discussion? Kingsley, there's
somethin' you wanted to bring up (several talking)
Botchway: Maz, go ahead!
Item 4d(1) ICFD Strategic Plan—Consider a motion approving the Fire
Department Strategic Plan
Salih: Uh, I just wanna talk about Item 4d(1). Just I'm gonna(unable to understand)
various items here. One of them is 4d(1), about the Iowa City, you know, Fire
Department. The strategic plan, uh, you know....(unable to understand) of the
diversity part of the plan is to promote recruitment of men and woman of diverse
background. I just thought that really, you know, I like this very much and I
support it. The Fire Department offer to achieve greater diversity in our
firefighters. This is great. And, um, the second one.....will be, uh.....yes, Item
4d(10).
Item 4d(10)Order of Business for Council meetings - Resolution repealing
Resolution No. 13-81 of the City Council of the City of Iowa City and
approving a new resolution setting the order of business for formal council
meetings
Salih: Because I was reading, I don't know if, you know, you say like (unable to
understand) specifically requests that any of the item be consider separately. This
item will be removed and considered later on the agenda. Is this something new
or always was there? For the....
Throgmorton: This just provides us with a little more flexibility. Eleanor, could you....
Dilkes: No, that provision of it has always been there though.
Salih: It's always been there? I thought (unable to understand) know about it. That's
why, so you know, I can just mention it so for the public to know they can also do
that. And....um......just very brief for Item 4e(1).
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Item 4e(1) Univer-City Sale—717 E. Davenport. Resolution setting public
hearing for May 29, 2018, on a proposal to convey a single-family home
located at 717 E. Davenport Street
Salih: The University, uh, Univer-City sale for the 717 E. Davenport Street. I know the
price is $165,000 but I would love to know like (unable to understand)bedroom
there?
Fruin: (mumbled)
Taylor: It was small. I thought it was two-bedroom, 900-square feet I think.
Salih: 900-square feet? I forget (unable to hear)
Fruin: Two-bedroom, one bathroom, 960-square feet.
Salih: I just wanna comment on that. Really, $165,000 for two-bedroom is way
expensive, and we're talking about affordable housing here. Uh, it's still the
question will remain, affordable to whom? I think we should look into that, you
know, I....I have personal experience, is lookin' for a house, and I know what the
market look like and....and I understand this is not affordable. Maybe you can
talk about it later. The last one is 4f(2).
Item 4f(2) Archie Green: Low income housing for the elderly
Salih: (mumbled) Archie Green, low-income housing for the....I'm referring to the letter
that being sent. Yeah, and also....again.....you know, I....I like the idea of like
having like,building affordable housing for elderly people,but as you all receive
this letter and read it, for a single bedroom, 650 for the rent, it could be
affordable, yeah, on the....but in the real life it also the question gonna remain—
affordable to whom? We need to include everyone when we thinking about
affordable housing. I know it's made to be affordable and 650 somehow
affordable,but it still, the question is again, affordable to whom, and this is great
example, the letter that we have receive. We're not including everyone. (unable
to understand) Univer-City sale (unable to understand) elderly housing, certain
income, we really need to change the way of how we do....how we think about
affordable housing and affordable to whom.
Throgmorton: That it, Maz?
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Salih: I guess....that's it,yeah. Thanks!
Throgmorton: Okay. Thank you.
Item 4e(5) Mormon Trek Boulevard (Westside Drive to Melrose Avenue)—
Four Lane to Three Lane Conversion Project Resolution setting a public
hearing on May 29, 2018 on plans, specifications, form of contract, and
estimate of cost for the construction of the Mormon Trek Boulevard
(Westside Drive to Melrose Avenue)—Four Lane to Three Lane Conversion
Project, directing City Clerk to publish notice of said hearing, and directing
the City Engineer to place said plans on file for public inspection
Botchway: So I'm gonna briefly comment on, uh, 4e(5) and, uh,just...uh, this is associated
with the....project, my notes are now everywhere. The project to afford a three-
lane conversion, or....yeah, four to three-lane conversion of Mormon Trek. Urn,
I'm gonna support this project. However, here are my points of concern. Uh,
received a low road grade and that wasn't necessarily, um, focused on, urn,
casualties, which we've discussed is a value on Council. Obviously I....I have
values as far as preserving life as well. Um, but....a large part of this (mumbled)
is due to traffic. Um, so for me it's ultimately supporting a low assessment. I
understand that it conflicts with our Council value, um, related to safety
(mumbled) with speed collision, but again, I have some concerns, urn, with this
arterial street, um, going from four to three lanes and the traffic that it would
cause. Urn, all the studies, urn, we've reviewed speak to wanting and a desire to
(mumbled) traffic flow. I know that again we have asked our, urn,
representatives, urn, at the....at the City level to provide for more information as it
provides....or as it....as we look at safety and want to have additional safety
components, but I do feel like there's...cause there's a happy medium where we
can look at safety, um, but also look at traffic flow. Because I would say in
regards to that safety component, I'm not necessarily there yet. I...I think that
with, urn, I....what was used before was, um, an example of how Dodge Street is
a...a three-lane road and I can tell you going to work every day, um, coming in to
Dodge Street is awful. I mean it's terrible from that perspective,and....actually
just today there was an....almost an accident waiting to happen as you come out
of the HyVee, uh, gas station, where somebody was trying to butt in because
there's just so much traffic. My concern is with the change from four to three-
lane is that we're just talking about, you know, individual business, um...uh, you
know, workers corning in to work, urn, and Mormon Trek, we're not only talking
about arterial street where there's people coming in to work, we're also talking
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about a highly-trafficked street which has about....two, three....two schools, urn,
in that particular area, and a major high school, and I know that you know that
I'm a speed demon, but I will guarantee you that some of the students, urn,just
leave me in the dust and so in thinking about how traffic flow is associated with,
urn, speed and ultimately younger age drivers driving and wanting to get to class
on time, and workers wanting to get to class on time, I'll be looking at and
wanting to make sure that we review those safety statistics that we valued to make
sure that we don't see an uptick or cause for concerns from that standpoint. I
am...I will say thought I'm in favor of the turn lane, cause that's....that's an awful
area to turn, and so in general I just wanted to say I'm supportive of the project. I
think we've talked about this before, but I did want to highlight it because, I
mean, I used to live on the west side, urn, neighbors that I had previously, and
also people that I've talked to, have expressed considerable concern. They did
not feel comfortable coming to Council because, again, they don't want to be a
proponent as has....as is how it's been described of not wanting safety, but I do
think as we....as we deliberate and look at this as a potential, I wouldn't say pilot
but...in a sense pilot project to review what this looks like for arterial street, I do
wanna make sure that we have those considerations in mind and that when we
think about this four-lane to three-lane conversion, it does matter for different
areas of our town.
Throgmorton: (both talking) Well, I...I'm gonna interrupt, Pauline, only....
Taylor: Okay!
Throgmorton: ....only because of this. For the...for the public's knowledge, what we are doing
with Item 4e(5) is scheduling a public hearing....on requests for bids concerning
the Mormon Trek Boulevard four-lane to three-lane conversion project. So...we
strongly would encourage people who have....strong opinions about that
conversion from four to three-lanes to come speak, express your views, and we'll
consider what you have to say and then we...we'll vote on it, but that's gonna take
place ne...two weeks from now, on the 29th of May. Please, if you wanted to add,
go ahead!
Taylor: (mumbled)thinking about it's more kind of a point of clarification. I think,
Geoff, I've talked to you about this, uh, the...I'm not so concerned about the right
turn onto Benton, but I....my neighbors have been talking about, and where I've
only seen traffic congestion is trying to turn the, uh, southbound traffic trying to
turn left onto Benton and I didn't see that in here again, but I would hope that, uh,
that would also be in the proposal, that there needs to be that left turn onto Benton
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with a light, and then also the concerns about that convenience store, uh, slash gas
station that has the two entrance/exits. That...that's just not gonna work with that.
Fruin: Yeah, so at...at the public hearing on the 29th, we'll have the Public Works
Director, or the...or the City Engineer, come and present an overview of the
project, and we can get details on that intersection analysis and why we landed on
the...the plans that we have, and if you've got questions or concerns with those,
you know, that's....that's the point to express those, and either delay the project
and instruct us to...to move forward with some different changes or....move
forward based on our rationale.
Taylor: Refresh my memory, do we have traffic counts for Mormon Trek?
Fruin: Sure! Yes, we do.
Taylor: Okay. Good. Good.
Froin: If you recall there's some State funding in this project, and that State funding was
predicated on, uh, a safety analysis and so there's....there's a lot of good data that
supports the...the rationale behind the project.
Item 4d(2)Asphalt Resurfacing—US Hwy 1 (Burlington Street and
Governor Street) 2018 - Resolution awarding contract and authorizing the
Mayor to sign and the City Clerk to attest a contract for construction of the
Asphalt Resurfacing 2018—US Hwy 1 (Burlington Street and Governor
Street) Project
Throgmorton: I'd like to note two other items that concern roads that are on our Consent
Calendar. Item 4d(2) is an asphalt resurfacing project for Governor and parts of
Burlington Street, and it's authorizing a contract with a particular firm to do that
asphalt resurfacing. So that's gonna be a lengthy....it's gonna cover a large part
of(laughs) Governor Street and, I don't know, two or three blocks of Burlington
Street. So, that's gonna happen.
Item 4d(5) McCollister Boulevard—Gilbert Street to Sycamore Street—
Resolution approving, authorizing and directing the Mayor to execute and
the City Clerk to attest an Agreement by and between the City of Iowa City
and AECOM to provide engineering consultant services for the McCollister
Boulevard—Gilbert Street to Sycamore Street Project
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Throgmorton: Item 4d(5) is a resolution authorizing a contract with a firm to provide
engineering services for the design of McCollister Boulevard, from South Gilbert
to South Sycamore, and I know that quite a few people who live on the south side
of Iowa City have wanted that road to be built, so we're, you know, takin' the first
major step in that direction.
Item 4e(3) Creekside Park Improvements 2018 -Resolution setting a public
hearing on May 29, 2018 on plans, specifications, form of contract, and
estimate of cost for the construction of the Creekside Park Improvements
2018 Project, directing City Clerk to publish notice of said hearing, and
directing the City Engineer to place said plans on file for public inspection.
Throgmorton: Uh, 4e(3) has nothing to do with roads,but we are scheduling a public hearing
May 29 again on re...uh, on requests for bids concerning the Creekside Park
improvement project, and I'm...pretty sure that people who live out near
Creekside Park, I don't know if there are any around here (laughs) will....will
really enjoy seeing the work done. All right, any further discussion about the
Consent Calendar?
Salih: No.
Throgmorton: Hearing none, roll call please. Motion carries 7-0.
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Item 5. Community Comment(items not on the agenda) [until 8 pm]
Throgmorton: Anyone who would like to address any topic that's not on the formal meeting
agenda should feel free to come up and speak to us now. It has to be a topic that's
not on the formal meeting agenda (laughs) and please take not more....state your
name and then take not more than five minutes please.
McGuire: Uh, Linda McGuire and I'm here just to report, um,to the Council, um, a
donation that the Northside, uh,Neighbors made to the Iowa City Parks and
Recreation Foundation today. Um, there was a yard sale, a neighborhood yard
sale, and uh, and we had agreed that, uh, some of our proceeds, um, would go to,
back to the City, uh, for your generosity or...for your vote anyway of...of, uh, the
upgrade to Happy Hollow Park, and so um...uh, there was a bake sale and a yard
sale and some other generous,uh, donators and we made a contribution of
$10,575 today. (several responding)
Throgmorton: Good news! (applause) Anybody else have any good news to offer? (laughter
and several talking) All right, I'm not seeing anyone else. So we'll turn to Item
6, Planning and Zoning Matters.
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Item 6. Planning and Zoning Matters
Item 6a Rezoning Camp Cardinal Boulevard and Deer Creek Road—The
Grove—Ordinance conditionally rezoning approximately 7.84 acres from
Interim Development Research Development Park (ID-RP) zone to Planned
Development Overlay/Low Density Multifamily (OPD/RM12) zone located
west of Camp Cardinal Boulevard and east of Deer Creek Road. (REZ17-
00015)
a) Public Hearing
Throgmorton: I'll open the public hearing. (bangs gavel) Good evening, Bob Miklo. Hi!
Miklo: Hello, urn, would like to start off showing you the location of the property. As
noted, it's on the, uh, west side of Camp Cardinal Boulevard. It's east of Deer
Creek Road, and also east of, urn, Highway 218. Here's a photograph of the
property as viewed from the intersection of Deer Creek Road and Camp Cardinal
Boulevard, and note, uh, the trees on....on, urn, this photograph. I'll talk about
those in a....in a bit. Urn, and this is a photo taken from Deer Creek Road
looking, uh, east towards the, uh, the property. And then this photo is taken from
Camp Cardinal Boulevard looking south, uh, towards the property, and again
those trees on the....on the left, um, are part of the plan....part of the plan is to
preserve those. Uh, you might also note the, uh, pond, uh,just behind the car.
I'll....I'll discuss that in a....in a bit. Urn, this is a photo looking from Deer Creek
Road, or from the property, back towards Highway 218, which is west of the
property. The, uh, Comprehensive Plan for this area, um, refers to the, uh, Deer
Creek, or excuse me, the Camp Cardinal Boulevard master plan, uh, which talks
about, um....conservation design in this particular area. The plan speaks, uh,
about the possibility of.....of office park as a, urn, as the first land use adjacent to
Highway 218 and then that(clears throat)um, transitioning to,urn, residential, uh,
the idea being the office, uh,might serve as a buffer, uh,between the highway
and the residential. But a, uh, a previous version of a Comprehensive Plan talked
about, uh, the difficulty or the lack of demand for office in this part of the city, so
questioned, uh, whether office was a viable use here. Urn, the, urn.....urn....
Planning and Zoning Commission,uh, to address the concern about a buffer
between Highway 218 and this property, urn, did recommend approval of a plan
that includes a greater setback from the western property line and that, uh, setback
area or that buffer area, according to the plan,will be planted with a, uh, variety
of trees including evergreens and deciduous. The,uh, conditional zoning
agreement calls for the City Forester to approve that plan,um, so that it is...is
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designed to help create a buffer. The, uh, conditional zoning agreement also, urn,
calls for, uh, approval of a sound mitigation plan, uh, to be prepared by an
acoustical engineer prior to a...a building permit. And it's anticipated that that
plan will include things such as laminate windows and sound mitigating materials
such as masonry, uh, and stone, urn, on the exterior of the building. Uh, the
Planning and Zoning Commission also recommended, uh, that the,uh, the, uh,
project include some outdoor, usable open space, um, so there were four deck
areas added to the plan. Sorry, the cursor isn't showing those, but they're on the,
uh, north side of, uh, the property, uh, along the fire access road and there are four
individual, uh, outdoor deck areas that overlook the pond. Um, this...the decks
and, um....um.....pond areas are somewhat shielded from the highway by the
slope of the land and also the, uh, buildings that are proposed will, um, will help
shield those. Urn, here are some illustrations of the,uh, of the photos, which
show that they will be a...a combination of....of, uh, masonry or stone, and a, uh,
a wood or like, um....um, siding, uh, material. Um, the plan also includes a, uh,
tree preservation plan for the, uh, the....the woodlands along, uh, Camp Cardinal
Boulevard, urn, and this is a view of, uh, of the east side of the property which
shows the woodlands. Most of those woodlands will be preserved as part of this
plan. I believe approximately 55% of the woodlands on the property will be
preserved. Um, Planning and Zoning Commission after, um, several meetings,
uh, and reviewing different variations of the plan have recommended approval
with the conditional zoning agreement and those con...conditions are intended to,
uh, help create a buffer between the highway and the....and the building, and als
.....these buildings, and also, urn....um, have a building design that is appropriate
for what the Commission thought was a....a major entry to the I....uh, City of
Iowa City. Be happy to try to answer any questions.
Mims: Bob, when it comes to the design standards,my understanding that was kind of,
one of the big issues in...in the delays with Planning and Zoning. My concern is
....developers and their architects put in a lot of time and money to come up with
designs, based on the standards that we have in place. I guess my question is, do
you....do you think we need to change those designs, those design standards? Do
we need to have different design standards for different locations like entries into
the city? It....it seems like....it seems like we have developers and their
architects trying to design to what we have in place, and then P&Z is saying that
that's not good enough, and I'm....I'm trying not to be critical of either one cause
I'm not saying those hired designs aren't good and beneficial for the community,
but I think it's always difficult if you lay out one set of standards and then you tell
people after they've spent tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars that that's now
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not good enough for this particular location because it's an entry into the city, and
so I'm....I'm just interested in (both talking)
Miklo: Sure. In terms...in terms of...of my view or staff's view, I think in most cases the
design standards are....are adequate and, uh, do pro...produce appropriate designs
for their locations. In this particular, uh, location, Planning and Zoning was
concerned because the proposal was to add, uh, or to grant some waivers to allow
taller buildings in....in this particular area. Uh, they also recognize this as being a
fairly difficult site, um, the way that it's, um, wedged in between the highway and
Camp Cardinal Boulevard. Um, also the, uh, recognizing the....the importance of
Camp Cardinal Boulevard and the beauty of that....that street and the....the
character of that street, uh, they thought that there needed to be a....um, a....a
close scrutiny to the design of these buildings. And that's how this particular
design came about.
Mims: Thank you.
Throgmorton: Is...I couldn't tell from the maps. Is there, um, a sidewalk that children can use to
walk up to Borlaug School?
Miklo: Yes. There's a fairly extensive...of course there is the sidewalk on Camp Cardinal
Boulevard. Uh, there will be a sidewalk, uh, that goes up Deer Creek, uh, Road,
uh, to provide access to the buildings with an internal, um, walkway system, and
then there's also a walkway that will go back towards the, um, the fire lane in the
back of the building, to provide access to the outdoor, uh,recreational areas. This
is....the code generally requires a, uh, sidewalk to a public street,but given the
topog...uh, the topography here, uh, that would be quite difficult and, uh, would
result in, urn, more grading and removal of trees, so it was felt that this design
was probably a better approach, even though it's a fairly long way, uh, for a
pedestrian to get back to the,uh, sidewalk and Camp Cardinal Boulevard. Uh, it
was felt that that was better than cutting into the slopes and the woodlands along
there.
Thomas: So, Bob, the....the sidewalk along the....west side is not continuous, correct, I
mean it....only goes as far as (both talking)
Miklo: It goes to the entry of....of the development. Um, and the...the reason for that is
in the long-term we anticipate that....uh, Deer Creek Road will, uh, likely be
abandoned or vacated north of this property. Other than this propal...property, the
only, uh,properties served by Deer Creek Road is the quarry, and the thought is
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that when that quarry closes sometime in the future, that road will no longer be
necessary.
Thomas: So....so pedestrians or bicyclists would walk or ride their bike back to Camp
Cardinal, correct?
Miklo: Correct.
Thomas: And...currently there is no continuous sidewalk along the west side of Camp
Cardinal.
Miklo: No (both talking) as development occurs (both talking) will be one built, and you
may recall within the past year we did approve a subdivision just to the north of
this.
Thomas: Uh huh.
Miklo: And that(mumbled) bring the sidewalk, and then there's one more phase of that
development, which will complete the sidewalk on the west side.
Thomas: So un....until those pieces are in place.....pedestrians and bicyclists will
have....will have, well maybe not bi....well I guess bicyclists as well, will have to
cross Camp Cardinal, correct?
Miklo: That's correct.
Thomas: Yeah.
Taylor: Could you clarify, Bob, the...the size of the units. I was thinking I was reading
that it...one and two-bedroom units. That doesn't sound like family units to me.
Miklo: Um, it's my understanding that they will be one and two-bedroom units. There
are 110 total. Um....uh, and the parking is set up for one and two-bedroom units.
It would be possible that they could introduce three-bedroom units cause the
parking requirement is the same for one and two. Um, in terms of, uh, other than
parking, in terms of zoning, we generally don't get into the number of....of
bedrooms. So it...it's possible a developer could add three-bedroom units if they
chose.
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Throgmorton: Any other questions for Bob? Thank you, Bob. Would anyone else like to
address this topic? Seeing no one I'm going to close the public hearing. No, uh,
before I do that, I wanna (laughs) sorry! I wanna ask you whether you are
inclined to su....uh, vote consistently with the Planning and Zoning
Commission's recommendation...to approve the rezoning. (several responding)
Taylor: Well they certainly gave this a lot of thought. It seemed like they deferred it
several times and continue to get further information on it.
Throgmorton: All right so....given that, I'm gonna close the public hearing. (bangs gavel)
Could I have a motion please?
b) Consider an Ordinance (First Consideration)
Botchway: So moved.
Mims: Second.
Throgmorton: Moved by Botchway, seconded by Mims. Discussion?
Cole: I really like this development. What I love about the path that we're on,
especially on our west side (clears throat) is we're getting some very nice density.
I mean you're talking about 110 units, multi-family. Urn, it's close to other large
single-family houses, which we (mumbled) only to be that but it's a nice mix of
incomes. Urn, I like the design. Um, I think I understand where your concern is,
Susan, that we wanna make sure that we're not making the developers have to
modify too much, um,but that said, it seemed like it was a really healthy process,
thoughtful process, that P&Z engaged in...to get a real targeted, uh, concept for
this spot. So I think it's a great development!
Mims: My only concern, Rockne, is...it may have been a really healthy process for P&Z,
but when it happens this way it tends to be a very expensive process (both talking)
Cole: I understand that.
Mims: ...for developers, and when we talk about trying to make things as affordable as
possible, when they spend tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars on design, and
then our design standards are sufficient, and I'm not saying that they shouldn't
have been better in this location. I'm not trying to criticize this particular one.
I'm trying to talk about our process, and...if we need higher standards then we
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should develop higher standards. Otherwise, to me, if developers come in with
something that meets our standards, then that shouldn't be a....shouldn't be a
factor in the rezoning. It should be what is...what is the appropriate land use, not
what is the design. Otherwise we need to look at our design standards.
Throgmorton: I'd say you raise an important point, Susan, but I would look at it, uh, quite
differently. Uh, it seems to me on the face of it, this is not a good site for
residential development. Now why do I say that? Uh, because there are two
heavily traveled roads, very close by. That means it's gonna be, unless
something's done, it's gonna be very noisy. There's gonna be a substantial
amount of, uh, small par...particulate matter comin' from the roadway traffic,
probably roadway dust of all types, uh, and so on. So it seems to me that the
Commission did exactly what we would want them to do, which is to make the
initial proposal much better than it was at the start. And yes I agree that there are
some costs associated with that, I recognize that, but it was needed, and I...I think
the project, somehow in some sort of a...an ideal world, could be a lot better, or
different,but I really admire the energy and intelligence that our Commissioners
put into this project, and the way they just worked their way through it and
identified what they thought were the most important community values. It
needed to be articulated in the final proposal and they got to a point where they
could vote 7-0 in favor of it.
Mims: But see what I would say again from a process standpoint then is maybe we need
different design standards. One of the comments that they made repeatedly was,
this was an entryway into Iowa City and one of the first things that people see.
So, my question is, do we....should we have different design standards for sites
that are on entryways into the community? If this is, if we are doing multi-family
and major development near, uh, high volume,high traffic volume roads, should
we have different design standards? Again, to me, it comes back to the process
where we tell people that these are the design standards,but then they get into the
middle of it and we tell them, for very good reasons, no we want it different. It
costs them a lot more money. I think in those cases we need to go back and say,
okay, one set of design standards isn't good enough for the community. You
know, we....maybe we need to have different sets of design standards based on
other externalities for the sites. Entry into the community, traffic volumes within
a certain distance, etc. That's my point.
Throgmorton: Yeah, interesting point. I...I'd just follow up on one part of it. I think you're
drawin' attention to the importance of context, and how context....in many cases
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should largely influence the design of structures, and that may be sort of forgotten
or omitted in our codes. Yeah.
Taylor: I agree with what, um, you're saying, Mayor,but I agree with Rockne also that,
uh, it's great to see the west side developing, but I think, urn, Susan,there was
more to, uh, P&Z's concerns than just the design standards. I mean I'm....I'm
really concerned, I read several times that it's a challenging property and Bob
himself said (mumbled) fairly difficult site, and it's just sort of this unusual site
and I keep wondering are we just throwing developments into any sort of green
space that's available,just to put something there? I mean why can't we just
leave it the green space? Why is it so important that we develop it? Um,because
it is challenging. It's so close to 218 and I just can't imagine. I think someone
had written that they live on the west side and hear traffic, and I do too and I live
half mile away from it and I...I can hear it, especially if my windows are open,
and...and the fumes and you're talkin' about havin' green space and patios and
....are people really going to sit out there when you've got the fumes and...and the
noise? I...I just don't think....I don't think so. So I think there was more to it
than...than the design standards, and yes, that was a big part of it.
Mims: Then that comes back to land use.
Taylor: Right. That's true.
Mims: Not design standards.
Throgmorton: Anyone else?
Thomas: I, yeah, I, this was an interesting one to...to look at. We had, uh, by my count 68
pages of; uh, documentation,uh, covering the seven meetings of Planning and
Zoning, so there really was an extended process—four formal meetings, three
work sessions—uh, and you know, as....as we've heard on our discussion here,
I....I think some of the issues seem to be that the applicant was looking at in....in
effect a variance on the setbacks off the interstate, uh, and.....Planning and
Zoning was just challenging whether that was an appropriate thing to do, given
the impacts of....of such a variance. Uh, one thing I've emphasized for some
period is....is the idea of what's sometimes referred to as usable open space. That
was another issue that,uh, carried over on a number of those, um, those P&Z
meetings. I would certainly support, uh, looking at....cause I do think, Susan,
if... if an issue recurs on application after application, uh, it may be that we do
need to look at revising our plans, and I know we have usable open space in
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certain parts of Iowa City—Riverfront Crossings is one example. I certainly
believe sociability, especially when you're talking about 110 units, uh, in a
relatively isolated location, you know, where you do not have access to parks or
schools for that matter, uh, I think Borlaug's about a mile away, uh, that you...
the need for on-site gathering spaces and outdoor spaces becomes more critical,
um, and that was incorporated into the plan. I think it was sited in a good location
and away from the highway, facing the, um, the, uh....detention pond. So I think
the conversations....that were held at those meetings were productive, but they
were extended, um....but this was a challenging site.
Salih: I just wanna give like big shout out to the Planning and Zoning and all the hard
work they have done and I think that they have to go through to make this project
really good. Uh, as Rockne said, I really like the three multi-family buildings, uh,
with 110 units. That's really will increase, you know, the low-cost housing, in
general, and try to solve some houses crising. That's really good. Um, I'm very
proud about this project, and but also as Susan said, um, maybe to make even the
Planning and Zoning(unable to understand) if we can also review those so, you
know, requirement so they can make their job easy.
Botchway: Yeah, I would agree I appreciate what the Planning and Zoning Commission did,
I mean it made my job easier from seeing all that deliberation and ultimately
answering a lot of questions for me, um, you know, that I ultimately have to, you
know, kind of jump out of body sometimes to make sure I'm thinking of the
particular Councilor perspectives. I usually throw out John if it's in relation to
trees or open space, and so having that conversation beforehand provided a lot of
the answers, for me, that just made it a lot easier to make a decision on. Um, I do
agree with Susan's point though, I mean we've brought this up....or I may have
brought this up during the strategic planning session or along those lines is that,
you know, I....this property was tough and so I'm thinking more in general as we
think about, um, the range of topics tonight even. Um, we may want to consider
some type of evaluative process, and we may currently have one in place, urn,
towards our designers or developers,just to know from an evaluative standpoint
what the process looks like. Is this a...is this an open process? Do you feel
comfortable with this process? I just think it would be important to get some of
that feedback, urn,before we may make potential changes or have some different
conversations as far as that design criteria because I've been hearing that a lot,
and I want to make sure that, um, we can look at some of that information, but
support for the project. Urn, Maz and, um, Rockne already mentioned the fact that
it's multi, uh, a number of different units. Uh, I think there's been some concerns.
Pauline, I know you brought up some concerns, not necessarily relative to this
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site, but some other sites that we've talked about in the Camp Cardinal area, that
had some different range of options,but I would say this one I like because of the
number of units and the density that can provide, you know,more affordable
options, particularly in this neighborhood, which I....I just have some concerns
about related to affordability. So, excited!
Throgmorton: Any other comment? Hearing none, roll call please. Motion carries 6-1.
Throgmorton in the negative.
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Item 6. Planning and Zoning Matters
Item 6b Rezoning between Burlington and Court Street—Pentacrest Garden
Apartments—Ordinance conditionally rezoning approximately 3.41 acres
from High Density Multifamily Residential(RM-44) zone to Riverfront
Crossings- South Downtown Subdistrict (RFC-SD) zone located at 12 E.
Court Street. (REZ18-00014)
a) Public Hearing
Throgmorton: I'll open the public hearing. (bangs gavel)
Miklo: As noted, this property's located, uh, between Burlington and Court Street, urn,
it's, urn, east of Madison and, uh....uh, west of Clinton Street. It is the site of the,
uh....uh, Penda...Pentacrest Garden Apartments, uh, which were built as an urban
renewal, uh, project,uh,back in the 1970s. As part of that project, uh, Capitol
Street was vacated by the City and closed to traffic, although a view corridor was,
uh, retained for views of the old....old capitol. Urn,this is a photo of the current
state of the property. Urn, Capitol Street, uh, to the south, uh....um, or ends at
this point. It previously continued on to the...to the north, and if these trees
weren't here, you'd be able to see, uh, the old capitol in this photo. Uh, this is
a....a photo from the intersection of Capitol Street and Burlington, looking south,
um, showing the, uh, existing, um....um, buildings on the property. Uh, the
proposed rezoning will allow this,uh, property to develop at a more, uh, dense,
uh, mid-to high-rise type of development. Urn (clears throat) that development
was contemplated and planned for in the, uh, Downtown and Rivercro...front
Crossings, uh,master plan. Uh, the plan specifically identified, uh, this property,
uh, as appropriate for a higher density,possibly student housing, given its location
close to the campus. Uh, the plan also called, uh, or calls for the reopening of
Capitol Street, uh, as a, uh, street carrying traffic. Um, the applicant has agreed to
a conditional zoning agreement,uh, which would provide for the,urn, the
rededication of right-of-way, uh, for the opening of Capitol Street, and also has
agreed, uh,build the street to the, uh, specifications approved by the City
Engineer,uh, for the street. Uh, they have submitted a, uh, concept plan, showing
it, uh, as a, uh, two-lane street, uh, with parking on....on both sides. Urn, this is
very conceptual in nature. It's likely that the actual, uh, plan would include turn
lanes at the, uh, intersection with Burlington Street. Urn, it is also possible
there'll be some sort of....of driveway to the eastern, uh, part of the development
from Capitol Street, and that may be necessary just given the topography and
grade. It...it's, uh, would be difficult to achieve underground parking, uh, by
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coming from the, uh, the east, and we would not want another curb cut on
Burlington or, uh, Court Street, uh, so therefore it's....um, highly likely there'll be
some sort of, uh, traffic on this street. The, um....form based code, uh, that would
be applied with the Riverfront Crossings zone,uh, would,uh, or will allow, uh, an
eight-stor....or eight-story buildings on these properties, and I would point out
that this concept doesn't show an actual building design. It just shows the
potential maximum footprint. Um....the, uh, form based code will require that
there be some building articulation and stepbacks, uh, to break up the....the mass
of the building. Um, as noted, uh, up to eight stories could be built under the
form based code. Uh, there's the possibility of additional, uh, bonus heights that
could be approved by the staff, uh, form based,uh, review committee, and up to
additional, uh, an additional five stories could be approved under a level two
review, which is a City Council level review. Uh, so the maximum that would
....potentially occur here would be 15 story buildings and that would require that
the plan come back to you for....for your approval. The Planning and Zoning
Commission was concerned about approving, uh, a potential high-density high-
rise, uh,building, or set of buildings, on this property, without seeing at least a
concept plan. So they've recommended that, urn, that, uh, a....a conditional
zoning agreement require that, um, the future plans for these two,uh, sites, or this
property, come back to them for a review and approval. Um, and again, if level
two review is required, uh, those plans would also, um, or in that case Planning
and Zoning Commission would be making a recommendation, but you as the
Council would have ultimate approval of, uh, those designs. Um, and I would
note that based on the intentions of the....of the current owner and potential
developer, they are anticipating, uh, larger buildings that would require Council,
uh,review. Um.....the form based code, uh, does require, uh, usable open space,
uh, based on...on bedroom, uh,bedroom count. Um, and the applicant has
indicated that they plan to do that on, uh,rooftop terraces on perhaps some of the
lower and as well as some of the higher levels of the building. Uh, they have
submitted, uh,this illustration, or photograph, of the type of....of building that
they....that they contem....contemplate and how they might, uh, satisfy that open
space requirement, but again this is just a....a photograph of another building. It's
the,uh, the....the type of, uh, building they would like to build here, although a
specific building hasn't been designed. Um (clears throat) there is a conditional
zoning agreement that the, uh, that does contain the conditions I mentioned
regarding re, uh, opening of Capitol Street, um, and uh....review by the Planning
and Zoning Commission, uh, and also, uh, improving the,uh, or installing the
streetscape improvements for Court Street and uh, Burlington Street. I'd be
happy to try to answer any questions.
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Throgmorton: Are there any questions for Bob? Thank you, Bob. Would anybody else like to
address this topic? Hi, how ya doin'?
Decker: Rob Decker, I'm the project manager for the owner. Urn,just really quick, uh, as
Bob mentioned, he did a really good job (laughs) most of the things I was gonna
say, but urn, obviously this is already in the....in the regulating plan (mumbled)
south downtown sub-district and we're just asking for the, really the formality of
rezoning this so that we can get to the next step where the intention is to provide
you with a....with a project packet, where the team is putting together a
conceptual elevation streetscape looks, urn, and go through the....the process
of...of, um, getting things in front of you for urban renewal, and as he said the
form based code committee, so that we can really bring this back to you and you
can do all the things that the....the Planning and Zoning Commission was asking
for, and that's the....the full intent of the owner to do that, in probably one, maybe
even more, uh, additional meetings, so.....through Planning and Zoning and you
guys as well, so....I just wanted to state that again. So....
Cole: Is it really just a cost issue that we can't get it now?
Decker: Oh yeah!
Cole: Okay.
Decker: Yeah, I mean it's that....and....and that is, it is such a high-level, urn, it's such a
high-level project that the....not high-level project, but high-level of quality, it's
such a massive scale that,um....those processes are so early in the...he just wants
to sort of get this through as a formality so that he can kinda get on to the next
steps and really....and start to sort of spitball what those things are gonna look
like, right, knowing full well that that is going to result in everybody looking at it
again. So.....and it is....you're correct, I mean that's the primary. That's the
primary(mumbled) it's very similar to what you were talking about in the
previous issue. So.....
Throgmorton: Any other questions? Thanks!
Decker: Thanks!
Throgmorton: Anyone else? All right, so I need to ask you whether you are inclined to vote in
accordance with the Commission's recommendation, and before you indicate I
wanna tell you what I, uh,believe. I am inclined to oppose the rezoning. Unless
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something else happens in the interim. I think this application is premature and
insufficient. I worry that by approving this rezoning we would in effect be
authorizing an unknown number of residences in perhaps just two large buildings
of unknown height. This is our one chance to have a significant influence on the
project. To wait for the moment when we review the final design for, uh, for, uh,
height bonus approval, I think is far too late in the process. We'd find ourselves
in an awkward position of perhaps disagreeing with our staff,perhaps disagreeing
with the developer, and then.....pretending that we know more than our staff does,
etc. I don't wanna find ourselves in that position. I strongly believe that we need
to have before rezoning this property a much more...precise understanding of
what the developer would like to do on the property. And, you know, in terms of
height, number of buildings,uh, streetscape elements, I don't know, a variety of
things like that. In turn, I think it would be fair for us to indicate to the developer
what we think the project needs in order to gain our approval. So I have some
prela...preliminary thoughts, but, uh, we can skip them for....for the moment
anyhow. Uh, I....I think, given what I just said, it would be very helpful for us
and for the developer to dedicate a work session to this proposal, much like we
did with regard to the Forest View Comp Plan amendment and the design of
Augusta Place, so that we get interaction between the developer and us, and can,
uh, share our,uh, various perspectives and get a...somethin' that the developer can
feel confident we would approve. So, that's my view at the moment, and I'm
very curious to know what you think, not so much about my view but about what
your own view is and so on, with regard to my basic question—do you support
what the Planning and Zoning Commission recommended?
Mims: I do. And the reason I do....you know,the City went through a whole long
process of charrettes in terms of developing the Riverfront Crossings area, um,
getting the form based code in place. The City even took the initiative to rezone
property in the Riverfront Crossings area, without the, um, application of property
owners. We took that initiative, um, property owners didn't oppose it, but they
didn't have to ask for it. We went ahead and did it because we really wanted to
try and jumpstart some of that development down there, which we felt was
incredibly valuable to the City as a whole, to vitalizing that area...south of
Burlington. What this property owner is asking for at this point in time is nothing
more than rezoning from the current to the Riverfront Crossings zoning. Okay?
Which is what we have said we want, south of Burlington. That has been what
this Council has said through many iterations of rezonings,the....the charrettes,
which hundreds of members of this community were involved in. There are
ample opportunities,um, and I think Bob, uh, listed those very clearly in terms of
what the developer and property owner will have to come back for if they want
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anything more than eight stories. Um, I think that's very clear to them that, you
know, they're....they've got eight stories. If they want the two extra, they've
gotta get,uh, approval at staff level for that design. If they wanna go past the two
bonus to anything potentially....an additional five, if they wanted to go that high,
but anything above those two bonus, they have to come to Council. Okay?
And...so we have that opportunity. I think to sit here and say, oh,but we need to
have that now or we're....we're basically telling them it's all okay....these are
smart people! They get it! They know what it's gonna take to get this done, and
to ask them to literally put hundreds of thousands of dollars, which is what I've
heard from other developers, out right now for designs when, and we wouldn't
....and we won't even rezone it to the zoning that we want, without them doing
that, um, I....I think is really....really disingenuous from this Council. I think we
owe them,uh,the opportunity to get this rezoned Riverfront Crossings and then
have staff and P&Z and...and it sounds like ultimately the Council working with
them as they go forward to....to get the designs that are satisfactory for this
location.
Taylor: I appreciate your comments, Susan, but I'm inclined to go along with the Mayor's
comments. I....I'm just really uncomfortable with too many unknowns with this,
uh, proposal and.....I think we need to be cautious about, uh....um, approving
anything at this point, uh,this is a very significant location in....in the downtown
area, and there's....there are many historical landmarks, the County Courthouse is
nearby,the, um, Old Capitol is nearby, and to....dwarf those things with....with
tall buildings, I....I just,there's....we don't know how tall they're going to go
and....and.....
Mims: Nothing over eight without staff and/or Council approval!
Taylor: Even eight, I think, is...is tall, for this area, but I know....
Mims: That is what Riverfront Crossings (both talking)
Taylor: ...but if...if we rezone it to Riverfront Crossings.
Mims: I...I (both talking)
Taylor: ....just my opinion.
Mims: I don't, I can't sit here and understand, from a Council perspective, when we've
had hundreds of people go through charrettes and develop this Riverfront
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Crossing, and develop form based code, and all we are doing tonight is talking
about land use. We are not talking about design. That will come back to us. This
was approved as appropriate land use for south of Burlington, through incredible
public input. And I think it's an incredible disservice to a property owner to say,
oh yeah, we did it then but we're not gonna do it now until you give us every last
bit of design,which ultimately they're gonna have to do if they want any bonus
on it.
Throgmorton: It's important to note that many developers have already deviated from the
Riverfront Crossings plan several times, with our authorization.
Mims: With authorization.
Throgmorton: Uh,but they had to come to us, to deviate from the plan. So the plan, for example
the, uh, the area where we were going to have,uh, a large square,between a
railroad station and the other railroad track to the south, it's not there anymore.
And, moreover, we did....when we approved,uh, form based code, we did not
know that a 15-story student housing structure would be built at Court and Linn
Street. So we built into the form based code an 'up to five story bonus' for
student housing. Up to five stories. But we didn't know this other building was
gonna be constructed, and then there....now there it is! It's going up. So, I think
those factors need to be taken into account as well.
Botchway: My(several talking) Oh, go ahead! Bob, can you come back up? Is this
appropriate? I just....just kind of walk me through the process again as far as how
it's coming back to us.
Dilkes: Sure!
Botchway: Okay, I just wanna make sure. Can you just walk us, I mean...so right now, as
Susan has mentioned, we're focused on the rezoning to Riverfront Crossings. I'm
just more focused on how this is gonna come back to us, and our potential
objections or approvals at...at each of those junctures.
Miklo: Um, as drafted with the conditional zoning agreement, um, any development on
this site will require approval of the Planning and Zoning Commission. Um,
anything above eight floors or eight stories will require, um, awarding of bonus
points and those, um....um,would require....or those would be reviewed by the
staff form based committee,uh, as well as Planning and Zoning. Anything above
that will require, urn, Council approval. So anything above 10 stories,
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automatically requires Council approval for those bonus floors. And, during that
process the Council can weigh into the design or can determine that those bonus
provisions or floors aren't appropriate and therefore not approve the design or
negotiate something through that process. I...I would like to point out that, um,
just for your information, we did rezone a large area surrounding this to
Riverfront Crossings. The City initiated that, um, we did not include this
particular property for one reason, and that is, uh....uh, wanting to have the ability
to negotiate the reopening of Capitol Street. Um....and that's what's....part of
this....this recommendation from staff and Planning and Zoning Commission, and
that's being fulfilled with this conditional zoning agreement.
Botchway: Bob, before you leave, oh,before you leave, again (mumbled) that the Planning
and Zoning Commission looks at it,but ultimately when does it come back to us?
You talked about if it's to go to 10 stories it automatically gets Council approval,
but what are the two....when would it come back to us?
Miklo: Yeah, if there's a proposal to build more than 10 stories, it would require....this,
the design come back to the City Council.
Mims: But I think the other key thing Bob just said is any design has to be approved by
P&Z. That was part of the conditional zoning agreement.
Miklo: Right. Right.
Throgmorton: It has to be seen by P&Z. Did they say they(several talking) approve it?
Miklo: Yes, I believe that's what the conditional zoning agreement says.
Throgmorton: All right, that's important to know.
Salih: I just wanna ask you, how high...just remind me about the Riverfront Crossing,
how high we can go, they can go I mean.
Mims: Depends on the area.
Miklo: The...the, for this particular property, the zone,uh, contemplates up to 15 floors.
There will also have to be Federal Aviation approval, given the Airport(both
talking) uh, so and I think that's where we came up with the 15 floor cap. It can't
be more than 15 floors under any circumstances. It may actually be a little bit
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less, based on FAA, uh....um, concerns, but it....we believe that approximately
15 floors will be possible on this property.
Botchway: Bob, can you go back to the clear, more clear pictures of the street? Cause I'm
just tryin' to make sure I'm....I know the property but....just make sure I'm
looking at it right. So....
Miklo: This is the view from Burlington Street.
Botchway: No, not that one, the one you just passed (several talking) the....yeah! That one.
So is there a building....um, what's the building going on....happening right here?
There's a bui...sorry! I'm just pointing at the screen(laughter) I thought
everybody knew! I thought everybody knew....so, in between, uh, on Madison,
um, between Burlington and Court Street, there's a building going up right there.
Miklo: Yes.
Botchway: What's the size of that building?
Miklo: Um....I'm not sure the exact number. It's...it's quite a tall building and it did, I
believe....
Mims: I see eight fingers up in the back. (laughs)
Botchway: Is it eight(several responding) Okay. That's what I....I wanted to kind of
understand the....
Salih: (both talking) and you said...they can build up to eight without coming back to the
Council.
Miklo: That's correct. One possibility that you may consider is adding a condition to the,
uh, conditional zoning agreement that any building,just...would have to come
back to both Planning and Zoning and Council. Uh, that may give the, um....uh,
developer enough assurance that they have the zoning in place to do at least an
eight story building and, um.....and address your concerns about future review.
Botchway: Eleanor, is that a, do we defer and then....come back or....
Dilkes: You'd have to continue the public hearing and then communicate with the
developer about whether that was agreeable to them or not, and then....because
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the conditional zoning agreement has to be signed before the close of the public
hearing(both talking)
Throgmorton: That sounds like a.....a possible pathway to me. Bob,thanks for suggesting it. I
wanna make sure everybody understands, I am not saying I disagree with what the
developer has in mind. What I'm....what I am saying is I have no idea what the
developer has in mind. And I'm also saying that if we have....if the only place
where we could exert any influence over the final design is the moment when the
developer says I wanna go more than....get a density bonus of, or....height bonus
of greater than two stories, then by that time it would have been too late! All we
could do is vote yes or no, we couldn't influence. We would not be able to
influence(both talking)
Fruin: I think that's a flaw. If that's what the Council wants to get to then it's a flaw in
our process, I mean, it wouldn't just apply to this property, because the whole
idea of Riverfront Crossings is the massive upzoning. So if you want design
review purview, urn, at....at a lower threshold than you have now, which is that
level two design review, then....then I think you're talkin' a much
bigger process or evaluation, uh, for....for design requirements.
Throgmorton: This is the most massive site though that we'll see. I mean I don't, again, I don't
know what the develop actually is proposing so I don't wanna exaggerate too
much.
Mims: I think the fact that they have agreed....uh, for P&Z to have....the right to review
it....I think....I think that's quite a concession on the part of the developers and I
think we should give, you know, credit to P&Z. Look at....look at the one we just
talked about, and how much they went through on this Camp Cardinal project,
and....the demands and....and review and stuff they did there. I think...I think it
behooves us as Council Members to give some....some credit and respect to P&Z
in terms of what they're doing and the CZA says P&Z has to approve the design.
Even at eight stories they have to approve the design.
Botchway: Yeah I mean this is a significant project, I mean I'm inclined to be supportive just
in thinking of the other building that's built, um...whatever that...west or east is,
sorry. Um (talking in background) west of the property. I do hear the concerns,
but I also....I do also hear Geoff's statement about how deep in the weeds are we
talking about going, and are we treating all properties favorably, and I understand
your point, Jim, as far as this is a more sizable project than other projects that we
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have considered, urn.....so, I would say....I like Bob's....oh....oh, I thought you
disappeared. Sony! (laughter)
Miklo: I'm not necessarily suggesting that. I was just....our staff is not necessarily
recommending that. We had recommended approval. Uh, Planning and Zoning,
um, using the form based code to guide the future development of this property.
Planning and Zoning added the condition about Planning and Zoning review. I
was just putting out a possible path,but staff is not necessarily endorsing, um,
including Council review.
Botchway: So I would...I appreciate that, Bob, cause I just, you know, labeled you as coming
up with the idea, so I'll take the idea (laughter) um, basically I....I would like to
see us, I mean, uh, defer, urn, leave the public hearing open, defer, urn, I'm not
necessarily at Jim's level, but I do...I mean I'm hoping that we can come up with
a happy medium from a language perspective, reach out to developer, urn, I just
don't want to lose on a project because we have some concerns. I would like to
see us....try to come to some common ground as far as potentially what we may
see in this project. Um, and again, going back to what we previously talked
about, cost and everything else. I just....I think we could wait on this, if...if
possible, so we don't have a no vote on this particular situation.
Thomas: I just wanna add a couple of other thoughts on this, and...and why I tend to
support the idea of deferral. Uh, some of which relate to the context of this
project. It's....immediately east of our new School of Music. It's, uh,just north
of the County Courthouse. Uh, it's....what runs through it is, uh, Capitol Street,
which is on axis with Old Capitol. Uh, it's a very significant north/south access
in terms of the City's structure. Um....(talking in background) Jim mentioned the
fact that we lost a significant piece of our Comp Plan in Riverfront Crossings with
the, uh, the loss of that large, uh, park space to the south, which suggests to me
maybe rethinking, or at least exploring other concepts for Capitol itself. Maybe
it's a pedestrian street.....it's not, um, a public right-of-way where we treat it
more as a conventional street with auto traffic. We have the example of Anne
Cleary, uh, walkway on the north, which is on Capitol, the same street that we're
referring to, uh, which I think has been a very successful model for, um, for
Capitol, uh, north of Old Capitol building. So there....there seem to be...this is a
very important site. I think there are a lot of issues that....that come to play with
it. Uh, the images that...that are shown, and I understand these are just images,
but ...these are the images that were presented and they're....I must say they...they
kind of...throw me a little bit, um.....you know, we....we have the experience of
The Rise. That's in complete compliance with our form based code. Uh, and I'm
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not hearing a real strong, you know, in....in.....in my conversations with
residents, uh,that that feels....like it's,you know, resolved all the issues through
their form based coding. So....so I'm hesitant to....to sign off, even at the very
preliminary level in terms of the, uh, you know, the....moving to the Riverfront
Crossings code when it seems to me there's some very foundational elements that
are still, uh, I think requiring further discussion before we...we do that.
Cole: Eleanor....go ahead!
Salih: Uh, for me I really prefer to defer it than to vote no for it. Because, you know, the
concept of Riverfront Crossing as Susan said is like to give the chance to people
to build high, but also the form based code and all those kind of things, and also
as,um, you know, our Mayor said, we don't know what the, uh, we don't know
what the plan for the, you know, the developer, what they have in mind. Maybe
we can defer it and ask, you know, the developer to come and tell us about what
they planning to do here. So we can....after that we can just make us....make our
mind.
Cole: Along those lines, Eleanor, if we deferred it, would we have the authority to do a
work session with the developer or not? How....how does that work? What
options we would have if we would defer it.
Dilkes: Well you can schedule a meeting, a work session with the developer if that's what
you wanted to do, but I....I think....that, I suggested continuation if you want to
add a condition to the conditional zoning agreement. That would be the purpose
of a continuance. If you do want to do that, then I think we should be clear about
what that is now.....so we don't.....so we can say to the developer this will....if
we add, and it's a very simple amendment. We would say if....it now says
`obtain approval of exterior design elevations from the Planning and Zoning
Commission,' and we would just add 'and City Council,' is that going to satisfy
you with respect to design review?
Salih: Uh huh. (several talking)
Fruin: I'm hearin' a couple of different things here. I think you need to...to focus in and
decide, is this a design review issue? Because if it is, I think the suggestion that
Bob laid out, if....if you want more control over that, then I think that's probably
the way to go. What I'm hearin' is not just a design review. It's a issue with the
Comprehensive Plan. That....you know, what the developer's essentially saying
is `we're gonna do what the Comprehensive Plan says, we're gonna....we're
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going to dedicate Capitol Street to the City and we're gonna do two long, linear
buildings arou...a...along Capitol Street, which is what the plan contemplated. If
there's concerns about lack of open space or the height of buildings around the
Courthouse, or any of those other things that have been articulated, that gets back
to the plan, and I think you need to have a discussion...you....you need to move
aside this issue and you need to have a discussion on what you want from that
plan. If...if eight stories is uncomfortable, if 15 stories uncomfortable, that seems
to be a bigger issue. I think the design review piece is rather simple. You....you
get a look at it, urn, when it....when it comes back. Keep in mind the...the space
right now is RM-44. It's our most dense district right now. Um, I haven't asked
our staff to look at this, but I don't know if it's built to the maximum that it could
be now, um, but....(clears throat) if we don't want the Riverfront Crossings
district, we have to make sure that we're okay with the RM-44 district and
whether this property stays as it is. I'm sure it's a profitable property. Or if it
gets redeveloped under that district, and we potentially lose out on Capitol or any
of the other things that we were trying to get through the Riverfront Crossings
plan.
Cole: I would at least, if we have the authority to do it, I would like to defer and have a
work session for a conversation. Um, if we have the authority to do that, that's
what I'd like to do. Um, I'll just say for me, I don't have a problem with eight
stories. I don't have a problem with that. At least at this point. Um, but I would
like to have more of a conversation about what the intent is. I understand the
costs are extremely, in terms of the actual design, that's extremely expensive. I
totally get that. Um, but I think the very technical term of`spitballing' was used,
and....I think in terms of having this conversation, we can at least have a
conversation about what the aspirations are. I don't intend to get into the weeds.
I think...we didn't get into the weeds with the August Place. They gave us a little
bit of...that was farther along, I admit that. Um,but I think even in terms of, I
don't know where they got this photo, but....if there are other photos that they
have in terms of at least aspirationally, I think that would help me guide my
decision making in terms of sort of where we are. So, that's at least what I'd
(several talking)
Fruin: The aspirations of the developers, as we understand it, is to maximize density.
So, I would assume they're gonna shoot for the 14, 15 stories, whatever they
can... whatever they can get. Uh, the owners have, uh, they understand the height
bonus provisions. They understand what their options are. They have density
from other properties that they can transfer. Urn, so....I think their....I think their
intention is to maximize density within the constraints of the Riverfront Crossings
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plan. Urn, you know, there's....there's the usable open space provisions. There's
the form based code, which includes setbacks and storefront types of regulations.
So, you know, they haven't indicated to us that they....want to deviate from that.
They wanna built to the form based code standards, at the maximum density they
can, per the....per the plan. (both talking)
Throgmorton: So....
Fruin: ...they can come in and articulate that at a work session. That's fine, but I think
that's what you're gonna hear.
Mikes: You know I'm havin' second (laughs)that this work session idea though. I mean
we're in the middle of a public hearing. We weren't in the middle of a public
hearing when we had a work session with August Place, and that was in
connection with the fact that we were providing TIF to that development. So I...
it's...I have some queasiness about....continuing a public hearing and then having
a work session where the public can't....comment. I mean you can have that
conversation with the developer at the continuation of the work session...or at the
continuation of the public hearing. Like you often do!
Throgmorton: But we might need to do just precisely that. I...I wanna be, try to be clear about a
few other things. If I can remember them. I'm not interested in having a
discussion with the developer about the details of the exterior design of the
buildings themselves. I think that will be handled beautifully by the form based
code. I don't wanna be doing form based code. I am interested in how many
buildings they're gonna build, how tall the buildings will be, will they be of
uniform height,two buildings of uniform height. I am interested in the....the
Capitol Street extension, which I think is a great idea, but I'm interested in
discussing whether it should be a pedestrian walkway or a...a road. So I'm
interested in those things. And I'll note also that in the....April 16th work session
of the Planning and Zoning Commission, Mike Hench noted that for a project of
this size, hundreds of units collecting rents for 75 years, the applicant should be
able to spend the money to have elevation and concept designs drafted. I think
some kind of preliminary indication of what they have in mind...is necessary for
us to do our job. And I'd say also, I'd have to disagree with ya Geoff. The
Comprehensive Plan, the Riverfront Crossings plan, did not call for two long, tall
buildings there. It...I mean we had a map that....that Bob showed us just a....a
little bit ago, showing several maps, and we can't do exactly what that called for.
Um...yeah. So....I wanted to say, make those points. So I think the question is,
before us, uh, are we inclined to vote in accordance with the Commission's
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recommendation. If not, we need to continue the public hearing and offer to
consult with the Commission.
Dilkes: You.....you can offer the consult. It's hard for me to believe that...if you just
want to add `Council approval of the exterior design,' that they're
gonna....we....what are you (both talking)
Throgmorton: I'm not interested in approving the exterior design. I just said that, Eleanor.
Dilkes: No, I understand that. My point is, what is the purpose for continuing the public
hearing?
Throgmorton: Hopefully(both talking)
Dilkes: ...talked about amending the CZA; you've talked about....because you are or
aren't going to vote....I don't know how many of you are not inclined to follow
the recommendation of P&Z, so it's not for that reason. So....
Throgmorton: What I (both talking) as one member of this Council would like to see us do is
have a conversation with the developer. About what the developer has in mind!
And then we could share our ideas with the developer and maybe come up with
something that a clear majority of us would agree to.
Dilkes: So you want to continue the public hearing and have that conversation on the 29th.
Throgmorton: Yeah. I...I, this, yeah. Yeah.
Dilkes: Then there's not going to be a consult offered to P&Z, so we're simply going to
continue it for the purpose of having that conversation with the developer, and to
hear from any other members of the public.
Throgmorton: Yeah.
Dilkes: At the continuation of the public hearing.
Throgmorton: That sounds like what I had in mind, yes.
Mims: I'd like to know....what other Councilors want to hear from the developer.
Cole: Ido.
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Mims: No, what do you want to hear from them is what I'm asking (both talking)
Cole: ...whether we wanted to hear from (both talking)
Mims: No, what....what you want, I mean (both talking)
Cole: I want to have more of a clear idea as to what he, I'm answering your question,
what the proposal's gonna look like, more of a conversation. We understand that
we have the authority to do this, whether it's called a work session or public
hearing. I would like to have more time to review this. So I would....be inclined
to move....a public hearing.
Mims: I guess my....concern is, if....if they...they have to follow the form based code.
Jim, you just indicated you're not interested in getting into the weeds on the
exterior design. They can't go over eight stories without...P&Z approval. They
even have a CZA that is going to require P&Z approval. So....
Miklo: If I could,they can't build anything without P&Z approval.
Mims: Right! I'm sorry, maybe I misstated that. So they, the CZA says they are gonna
have P....have to have P&Z approval on the design. I just think if we're gonna
defer this, I think....it behooves us to give them specific information or....or
specific questions that we want answered. I am prepared to move forward on this
now. I feel comfortable with the fact that this is going to Riverfront Crossings
zoning, which has been approved in so many areas south of Burlington already,
some of it is City initiative; that there is a form based code in place that had, as
I've said before, input from hundreds of people; that the design itself has to have
P&Z approval; urn, that anything beyond eight stories will have to have additional
approval by P&Z; and anything over 10 stories will have to come back to us for
design approval. Um, I am comfortable with that. I think there are enough
checks and balances between P&Z and us for them to absolutely maximize, urn,
their density, and quite frankly, I'd really like to hear back from staff, Geoff, of
what they can do on this site without it being rezoned. Because we've had this...
we've gotten bitten by this once, okay? On First Avenue we chose not to allow
two or three multi-family buildings. I think all of us hoping that the developer
would come back with maybe one or two more smaller multi-family buildings.
And instead the developer said to heck with you guys; I'll just do what current
zoning allows me and now we have about eight curb cuts along there for single-
family homes. And I think one of the potentially absolute worst things that could
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happen to this city is that this property owner and developer says the same thing.
I am going to refuse to jump through....hoops that are above and beyond what
current process really requires, and I will just maximize the density on this site as
it is, without any rezoning, and the City staff and P&Z and Council will have
ha...will have absolutely no say in what I do, in terms of design or anything else,
and Capitol Street will not be reopened, and we could end up with....the biggest,
ugliest...uh....situation there than what we could possibly want. I think the
developer's being incredibly reasonable in asking for this rezoning, and I think
we've got some great checks and balances going forward. The developer would
like to comment. I don't know if you wanna allow him to or not.
Botchway: Yeah, sure, I mean....come up, I just wanna make this quick statement. Well
actually I'll wait! I'll wait and let him go first.
Decker: I wanted to say, I can speak to a lot of the things you guys are asking on behalf of
the developer. I just didn't because in our opinion it was...we were seeking more
of the formality. It's not a question as to whether developer wants to or can spend
the money doing that. He's planning to. He was just planning to do it at the next
stage. It's also....I can also tell you that on behalf of the developer, that they are
not planning....they....they want to come back to Council. They would ag....I
can speak for them, freely, and that they would agree to that wholeheartedly.
If...if that has to be a part of the agreement, they would agree to that. They're
intending to do it anyway. They're intending to spend all of the money. It's not
that they disagree with doing it now. It's just that we have laid out four phases of
this project and that was phase two, with the assumption that the Riverfront
Crossings is already established. Those heights and all those things you guys
have done a good job of breaking down are already established, are already there.
Geoff did a great job of describing that. They're not asking....that,they....I use
the word formality, but they're really seeing it as that—like can we get through
the formality because they...you did such a good job on the Comprehensive Plan,
let's just tick that off the list so that we can move to....the idea is to provide an
entire packet of what this project is, similar to The Rise. You guys saw that for
The Rise. It's a 50 or 60-page, color packet of transferring Capitol Street, what
the streetscapes would look like for what John said, which is are we....we've had
those discussions with Bob. Are we gonna do two lanes? Are we gonna do four?
Are we gonna do parking on the side? Are we gonna go to a....to an Anne Cleary
walkway? Those are things we'll discuss with P&Z. The owner's open to all of
them. He doesn't....from my discussions with them, I....I'm not sure they're
really hell bent on one way or another. I think they....they just want to get the
project done. They want to open up Capitol Street. They want to transfer that
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right-of-way,that they're 100% agreeable to that. It's a 100-foot right-of-way,
not a 66 which I think is a little more typical down there, right? Does that sound
correct? So....we wanna do all those things, we wanna get into the, you know,
stepping the building back at five stories. We have all those things in our mind,
but it's very, very early and we were just planning to do that at the next stage, and
never in our....never in the plan was it to not come back to Council, and I think
that we....we're able to express that and I apologize for not saying that earlier. I
was just,we were reviewing that. Susan's done a great job. It's a very formal,
you know, a formality and we're just trying....assumed this would be a little more
straightforward and kinda get to the next step and maybe that wasn't clear, that
that's sort of the intention of the owner. That's why I wanted to speak again,
because I heard you guys saying a lot of stuff that I'm able to answer....on behalf
of the owner. So I hope that's a little more (both talking)
Throgmorton: Do you think the owner would be willing, you and the owner,would be willing to
come in two weeks from now and give us a....a more clear indication of what the
owner has in mind?
Decker: Sure! I think so, and he may say, you know, maybe I'll have you do some
renderings now. We're gonna do them. So, us and the architectural team.
So...I....I don't wanna speak for him. I haven't asked him that question, cause I
don't think that was the plan, but I....I don't see that that would be a big....a big
problem, um....continuing the discussion, um...you know, like I said the....the
plan has been to do that all along and that's....that's pretty quick to get some...
some pretty....I think we want to do some pretty high-level stuff,but if you guys
are just kind of wanting to get a....a concept, that's what....I know Bob had those
same discussions with 'em too and that's why he....he kind of picked out some
images that were sort of conceptual to what he's sort of envisioning on that site,
right? You've seen The Rise,you've seen sort of what that is, and so it's not a
big stretch to think that there....somebody's gonna want to do something similar
to that. I don't know if...there have been...we've been in discussions with the
University too. The University is very interested in this,because it opens up, uh,
what they are looking at for their parking lot down there that is next to the....the
Johnson County Sheriff, that they....they have ultimate plans for and so they're
very interested in opening up that corridor too, for student foot traffic, and....and
there's a lot of parties involved that wanna see something happen here, and
opening up Capitol is...is key to it, right? That's...that's the biggest piece of this
and I think that's what they wanna transfer that, but they don't have to. You
guys, once you started talking about, they might just sit on it and let it go.
They've said that, if it's...if it's, and they're not saying it in any kind of....they
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just, they wanna do it, the zoning makes sense. It seems like it should be a
straightforward process, but I don't think they have to do it. It just....it's
something they want to do. It's their oldest, I believe it's their oldest property and
so it's kind of a....and John brought up a great point, you know, it's a corridor to
the Old Capitol, that the site lines, opening up that, excuse me, opening up that
view point would be very I think good for everybody.
Throgmorton: Good, I think it'd be very fruitful to have that conversation with the developer.
So if I'm understanding you correctly and if I've heard the....my fellow Council
Members correctly, what we would like to do is continue the public hearing to
May 29.....
Decker: Sure!
Throgmorton: ....in anticipation that you and the developer(both talking)
Decker: Yep! (both talking) That's what it'll be, it'll probably be (both talking)
Throgmorton: ...come and give us a clearer sense of what the developer has in mind.
Decker: Yeah, I mean I think it would be just sort of an add-on to what sort of,with some
additional....some additional visuals of what you've seen there. I mean you've
heard 99% of what I just told you is that you just wanna...I think you guys are
wanting to see more...more of the visual side of it, correct? Kind of how it's
going to (both talking)
Throgmorton: And have....and have...for me, have, speaking for myself, I mean, and have some
conversation with the developer about a few things, I would think would be key,
like with regard to that, uh, extended Capitol Street.
Decker: Yep.
Throgmorton: You're exactly right. That access to....north/south access to Old Capitol building
is hugely important.
Decker: Yeah.
Throgmorton: For what the University wants to do south of Court Street.
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Decker: Yeah.
Throgmorton: But the quality of landscaping, and whether there's a pedestrian walkway or a
street matters.
Decker: Yeah, and I....I know for a fact that he doesn't have an....they don't have an
answer for that. And I think that's very deliberate. I think that's because they
want to work with the City, and Geoff has probably had some discussions with
them, towards a....towards the best solution. I don't think they're...you know,
focused one direction or another.
Fruin: The way the CZA's written, it's....it's our call. You know, we will determine
whether we want that a pedestrian street or a, uh, vehicular street, and, you know,
we weren't in a position, at least I didn't feel comfortable at this stage, giving that
type of, you know, certainty, uh, within this rezoning because frankly I think it's
going to require a lot of discussion with the University, and their future campus
plans in the Riverfront Crossings area, um, and....and what they envision for, you
know, the extension of the, potentially extension of the Anne Cleary walkway to
the south, um....we need to do some traffic analysis to determine what opening up
to vehicular traffic would...would do to that area and the larger Burlington
corridor. So I....I'm just not prepared as....as staff to say what that should be,
um....but ultimately I want that call to be the City's call, um, and....and have
input from the developer, have input from the University, and the greater
community, and....and determine that, and that's what the CZA reflects right
now. So....we certainly won't....we won't be in a position to let you know what
our thoughts are on that by the 29`a. That's something that will take several
months to think about and to discuss with other stakeholders.
Botchway: Yeah, let me be clear. So thanks for your input. Urn(talking in background) I
think that, um,my....my feeling on deferral was more related to a potential, you
know, no to this project. Urn, and Susan, I appreciate you bringing up the First
Avenue project cause I couldn't think of a project that would come to mind. Um,
but ultimately.....you know, I am gonna go the process route to a certain extent. I
mean, for me I'm comfortable currently where the....where the building stands
with the appropriate, you know, code and zoning related to this particular
development. I also feel somewhat awkward,just recently saying that I really
appreciate the deliberation that Planning and Zoning went through, and then I'm
gonna say, well,the deliberation over Planning and Zoning isn't enough. It needs
my added input. I'm not saying you're saying that. I'm saying that's something
that I feel like if I...if I don't go in favor with the Planning and Zoning
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Commission, and as it's worded here, for them to approve the project,urn,
including design review, dedication of the right-of-way, and construction of
Capitol Street, um, I would, I mean,just not....I wouldn't say Geoff was trying to,
you know, give me(mumbled) from that standpoint, but you know, there's still a
lot more information that has yet to be determined for this project. From a
process standpoint, the developer has come with the rezoning. That is, urn,
potential rezoning that would poten...would have a, would have eight....eight
stories. I'm....I'm saying this out loud to make sure it's clear. Eight stories and
then a height bonus that if(mumbled) 10 it would come back to Council.
Throgmorton: More than 10.
Botchway: More than 10 it would come back to Council. If that's the only kind of
designation that I'm basing, at least the height piece on, I feel comfortable,
because we have an eight story right there, and in general,because of the other
form based code, or Riverfront Crossings, sorry! (mumbled) Riverfront Crossing
implications that we have that will be tied ultimately to this project. I mean I
have additional questions as far as affordable housing and some other things that
was discussed, not only in our packet, but also, you know, as far as how we move
forward with this that I have a lot of questions about but I'm....I am confident that
the Planning and Zoning Commission, again, in the same sense that they will be
able to provide us with, or at least me—I shouldn't say us—me with an easier
answer, as it related to open space, as it related to some of these things around that
location at Camp Cardinal. I....I feel like I would be.....I feel like I would be,
you know going back and forth, you know, I support Planning and Zoning to
be able to think through some of these projects, to be able to provide a project that
really, urn, on the....a tough location works and wouldn't be able to do it here. I
do feel comfortable with this, and in the event that it comes to a height bonus, um,
I mean I...I think we're going to have to have a conversation and discussion with
the developer as far as whether or not that's needed in that particular location.
Mims: The other thing that I would mention too is just a reminder to Council, this is only
the first consideration of three. To me there's no reason we can't close the public
hearing, vote first consideration, still ask the developer and representative to come
back in two weeks when we're gonna discuss this again as part of our second
consideration. We have to vote on this three times before it passes. And so....I
don't really see why we need to continue this and stretch it out, when we can still
get those same answers, urn, at our second or third consideration. So I will not
support deferring,keeping the public hearing open and deferring.
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Throgmorton: I'd say the main reason is because these buildings'll be here for like 75 years and
they might be 15 stories tall and will radically alter the appearance of the....of the
streetscape(both talking)
Mims: And you still have a second and third vote that you can vote no.
Throgmorton: Yeah. But....it's a good reason to continue the public hearing. Anyhow, but the
key question is, uh....uh, are there four or more Councilpeople in favor of
continuing the public hearing, under the anticipation that the...the developer, and
Rob,will be able to come and speak, uh, at our next meeting, in more detail.
Salih: I support deferring, you know, continue the public hearing and....
Dilkes: Let's just get a motion on the floor.
Throgmorton: Yeah, could we....
Cole: So moved!
Salih: Second.
Throgmorton: Yeah, to the effect of what I just said, right?
Cole: Yes!
Throgmorton: Okay, so we got a motion from, uh, Cole, second from Salih. Discussion?
Cole: We're talkin' about two weeks. I know time is money. I know we want to move
these projects along. We are talking about two weeks for an additional
conversation, additional feedback, and I'm looking forward to a constructive
conversation on May 29`s. I understand what Susan's position is, um, but I think
a little more time would be helpful.
Botchway: I do think it brings up a, you know, to that point, Rocicne, I do think it brings
(mumbled)point so I appreciate Susan really articulating the....the first...the
second consideration. We've done that in other projects where we've....we have
waited and said, hey, can you come back before us. I believe it wasn't necessarily
to a project,but I believe that when we were focusing on some type of alcohol
regulation, we wanted to go before the Committee,um, and vote on the first
consideration and ultimately whenever Jim or staff was able to provide that
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information back, urn, we knew that we may necess....we...we signaled to
whomever, or at least to us, that we may vote differently,based on whatever came
back. Urn, I'm....I.....I would say I'm inclined more from a first consideration
standpoint. If the developer's still willing to do it, I mean,there's no reason to
say yay, and if, you know, the conversation doesn't go as we....we would like,
you know, then we....then we vote differently. So....I would disagree. I think
that.....we should move forward.
Throgmorton: Further discussion?
Thomas: I....I support the deferral. I....I'm hoping that we can have, or continuation, the
uh....that notion of deliberative dialogue again, a true conversation, uh, rather
than as we saw with the,uh, Camp Cardinal project where, you know, there were
comments by P&Z. They conveyed to the applicant. The applicant then came
back, you know, so it was....it ended up being seven exchanges. I'm hoping we
can....accelerate the....the process by....by having a more deliberative dialogue,
uh, at that meeting in two weeks, so that we can respond more effectively with
one another in a shorter time frame.
Taylor: I'm in favor of continuing.
Throgmorton: I think I hear....
Dilkes: I'm sorry, I need one clarification and the direction from the Council is no
changes to the conditional zoning agreement, is that correct?
Throgmorton: At this moment, yes.
Dilkes: Because if there are that will require another continuation.
Salih: Uh huh.
Throgmorton: Yeah. So at this point, well any further discussion? No, okay, uh, we need a roll
call,right?
Dilkes: No.
Throgmorton: Uh, all in favor say aye. Opposed. Motion carries 5-2. Could I have a motion to
accept correspondence please?
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Botchway: So moved.
Salih: Second.
Throgmorton: Moved by Botchway, seconded by Salih. All in favor say aye. Opposed. Motion
carries. Thanks for your patience out there, folks! I know you're here for some
other topic.
[Mikes: Mayor, I'm sorry, we need a motion to defer the first consideration.
Throgmorton: Oh, I jumped by that(several talking)
Salih: Move!
Throgmorton: Moved by Salih, seconded by Taylor. All in favor say aye. Opposed. Motion
carries.
Dilkes: Thank you!
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Item 6. Planning and Zoning Matters
Item 6c Rezoning 1705 Prairie Du Chien Road—Ordinance conditionally
rezoning approximately 1.89 acres from Planned Development Overlay/High
Density Single Family (OPD/RS-12) zone to Low Density Multifamily (RM-
12)zone for the property located at 1705 Prairie Du Chien Road. (REZ18-
00002)
a) Public Hearing (Continued from 5/1)
Throgmorton: Uh, the details of the conditional zoning agreement have not been worked out, so
the public hearing will need to be continued and first consideration deferred until
May 29. I'm gonna open the public hearing, is that correct? Yeah, open the
public hearing. (bangs gavel) (laughs) Open the public hearing.
Mims: Move to continue it.
Throgmorton: I think maybe....oh, yeah, sorry! Could I have a motion to continue the (several
talking) Sorry! I thought you were(several talking) (laughter)
Eastham: My name is Charlie Eastham. I live at 953 Canton Street. I'm just wanting to
note that for this, uh, this rezoning request involves a, uh, actually involves, uh,
displacing a number of people who are living in mobile homes on this, uh...uh,
this site now, and the developer, they....Planning and Zoning Commission, as you
know, reached an agreement for, uh, providing displacement, or relocation
expenses, I think in the amount of$1,000. I would just like to say that I think that
amount is too low and I think the (mumbled) you have plenty of discretion to
require a more practical, uh, amount of relocation assistance. Whether or not
(clears throat)the HUD, uh, displacement relocation rules are actually used. I
know they don't apply here, because there's no HUD money involved, but I think
the Council has plenty of discretion to look at those rules and uh,require
whatever, uh, amount makes sense and is fair to the people living there.
Throgmorton: Thank you, Charlie. Anyone else? All right, seeing no one else, could I have a
motion to continue the public hearing to May 29?
Dilkes: And defer first consideration.
Throgmorton: And defer first consideration.
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Botchway: So moved.
Salih: Second.
Throgmorton: Moved by Botchway, seconded by somebody down here.
Salih: Me!
Throgmorton: Salih. All in favor say aye. Opposed. Motion carries. Can we move ahead?
(laughs) (several talking)
Salih: And we don't do discussion because we deferring it, right? (several responding)
Throgmorton: (mumbled) (starts to read next item)
Fruehling: I'm sorry, we do have correspondence to accept.
Botchway: So moved.
Salih: Second.
Throgmorton: Yeah, sorry! Moved by Botchway, seconded by Salih. All in favor say aye.
Opposed. Motion carries. Thank you.
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Item 6. Planning and Zoning Matters
Item 6d Rezoning Historic Landmark Designation 319 East Bloomington
Street—Ordinance rezoning property located at 319 East Bloomington Street
from Central Business Service (CB-2) to CB-2 with a Historic Preservation
Overlay(CB-2/OHP). (REZ18-00008)
a) Public Hearing (Continued from 4/17)
Throgmorton: I'll open the public hearing. (bangs gavel) Would anybody like to speak to us?
Trimble: Hello! Alicia (both talking)
Throgmorton: Hi!
Trimble: Alicia Trimble, Friends of Historic Preservation. Urn, sorry, I've never been able
to talk and write. Urn, I know I've communicated with some of you, uh, recently.
Um, but I'm going to ask you for something I rarely ask for. I'm actually gong to
ask that this landmark nomination be deferred. Urn, I've been trying to find some
middle ground here. I've met with Jo....Joy Smith, one of the owners, as well as
Linda McGuire, and have conversations with several other people who live in the
Northside. Urn, many of them,uh,brought to the point that the house is a much,
part of a much larger story in that neighborhood, about community and
immigration and the vibrant cultures that added to Iowa City history. Urn, and
there is a lot more that people want to do down in this neighborhood, urn, and I
think that by deferring that that allows for some conversations to take place. Um,
there is some interest in finding things that can be done during the Opticos study,
such as creating historical markers for which there may be smaller grants for that
could save the City a small amount, but some money when the final projects are
done in the Northside Market Place. Urn, in the meantime I'm also working with
an instructor of a public history class at the University of Iowa to try and find a,
uh, a project, a semester-long project in the fall for his class to do. He wants them
to have a class where, urn, they do archival research, or a project where they do
archival research. They communicate with a...a community group, and they take
what they've learned throughout the semester, the good and the bad in planning,
and try to apply those....those, urn, ideas to developing a neighborhood that
very that would work for....for a good community center. Um....sorry, I had
this all in my head when you guys started. You guys just have such long
meetings! (laughter) Urn.....urn, I think too that, urn, I think that there is a real
desire in this area for a lot of people to communicate. I think the Northside has
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always been very good at communicating actually, urn, there was some concern
by some people that they missed those Opticos meetings, uh, about the Northside.
I do know that some of those will be happening again as they continue. Urn, but
the final project with these students would actually be to come up with different
designs that they believe might work, and I think, um, this gives the opportunity
for the neighborhood to have a longer discussion on what they'd like to see in that
neighborhood, and I think that these student project could actually only serve to
provide Opticos with more information. I...I also believe that that's a really
unique educational opportunity for those students. Um, this also, you guys know
my biggest concern is always the beer truck scenario. It isn't about trust in this
case at all for me, um, but if this is deferred, that means instead...instead of asking
you to pull the landmark nomination, that if something were to happen and this
project were to suddenly be in danger again, that you wouldn't want to go through
Historic Preservation Commission, P&Z, and then back to you again. That
process generally takes months. Um....and I think....I think something good can
come out of this. We've had really great successes lately with things like the
Unitarian Church and I'd like to keep the conversation going in this case, urn, to
see what we can come up with that might...make everybody, I don't know
perfectly happy, but a lot more happier(laughs) than they are now. Thank you.
Throgmorton: Thanks, Alicia. Bob, were you going to say anything at the start? I mean you
don't have to. I was just (laughter) Chill out! (laughter) Eleanor, could you
please remind us what our guidelines are with regard to deferral?
Dilkes: Sure. Ur....you can continue the public hearing, you....there, there's no, you can
continue that, urn, for whatever period of time you believe is necessary to
accomplish the purpose of the deferral. Urn, if you continue it indefinitely we'll
have to schedule....we'll have to just set the public hearing again because we
can't continue a public hearing to an indefinite date. (clears throat) If you do
continue, the moratorium, urn...on any development activity that would be
inconsistent with...with the....the designation expires on June 151, or after June 1S1
it expires. Urn, and that could not be put in place again for a year.
Throgmorton: That's if....if we continue the public hearing the...the....the moratorium would
end anyhow on July 151 or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, so Alicia, I don't know if you
knew that.
Trimble: I did.
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Throgmorton: Yeah. So it doesn't give us much time. So....uh, I don't wanna have a
conversation with you out there, I'm sorry, that's wrong. (laughs)
Salih: Can I ask Alicia question or no?
Throgmorton: Yeah, could you come back up, please?
Salih: Yeah, when you saying you talk to some people over there like in the
neighborhood and, you think there is something good will come up and that's why
you would like to be deferred. Have you talked to the owner and you think the
owner will really be convinced, that why you want us to defer or....
Trimble: Urn, I actually had the conversation with Joy,uh,before I had the conversation
with the instructor, and then I actually did meet with Linda again,but I did...Joy
was out of town last week I believe. So, urn, I just think that, you know, this is a
really important neighborhood and....you know, Linda is right. This is only part
of a very significant neighborhood, and I think there is a larger conversation to
have here, um, about the history of the neighborhood and, um, the other things
that, you know, could serve to benefit, you know, the neighborhood, as well as be
reminders of that history. I think there are ideas for things like historical markers,
um....you know, looking at the history, um, of the neighborhood to inform maybe
what type of a development might occur in the future. I think those are all really
good ideas that, you know, the neighborhood should have the opportunity to
express.
Salih: Yeah, but that's being like all this time we knew that,we knew all the
neighborhood wanted this to be historic. We know all that, but....my point is,
when you telling me that something good will come out of this, I assume
immediately you talk to the owners and the owners maybe they're leaning toward
that side. That's why you need more time to convince them. Is that true?
Trimble: To convince....
Salih: The owner.
Trimble: I think Joy has her mind made up. I don't think there's any question there. I
think my point, urn, and my position is always to try and do what's best for the
community. That's why I work for non-profits. Um, but I think in the meantime,
this gives us an opportunity to have a larger community within the neighborhood,
or larger conversation within the community and the neighborhood, um, and I do
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see a lot coming out of this, especially from Linda McGuire's point of view that
this block really does need redevelopment, and that redevelopment really does
need to be healthy.
Salih: Uh huh(mumbled)
Throgmorton: I think this would be a reasonable question to ask, if it's not tell me. Uh, what
period of time would you have in mind?
Trimble: Sorry, I actually failed to mention that in my notes. Or I had it in my notes, I
failed to mention it. Um, this would actually be occurring during the fall semester.
A lot of the work with the students. So it would probably actually be a....be a,
some sort of deferral until the end of the year.
Throgmorton: Okay. That answers my question. Thanks. Good evenin'!
Smith: Good evening. Uh....
Throgmorton: Could you speak into the microphone when you talk please, thanks!
Smith: Good evening, um, Joy Smith, um, my husband David Rust and I own the
property under discussion at 319 Bloomington. I, um....intended to be, and I still
intend to be, very brief tonight. Um, I was surprised by Alicia's, um....suggestion
and so I'm sort of going to put my remarks aside. Um....I've had a good
opportunity to talk with many of you about this issue, and we've shared our views
with you in writing. Alicia's right, our general position remains the same. We've
talked about, David and I have talked about this and as this has evolved,um, it
seems to us that this....discussion about our building comes down to two issues.
One is timing, and that is,um, our biggest concern as owners who have an
investment here. We have felt all along that....the.....designation of our building
as a historic landmark at this point in time, um, saddled us, or potentially saddled
us, with more financial risk than we thought was reasonable, and that centered
around the, um clear possibility that there would be developed....unknown,
um, more unknown about the development that would occur on all three sides of
our building. Urn, so we continue to have those concerns. We imagine that at
your,uh, consult last week, we know that City staff and those who are concerned
about historic preservation feel like there are enough knowns that we shouldn't,
that our concern may not be reasonable. But we also know that for example, urn,
one of the members of the Planning and Zoning Commission saw that concern
that we have as quite reasonable. It wasn't his responsibility to consider that in
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terms of his vote, urn.....so we think that reasonable people, uh, can see our point
of view about that. Therefore...we would ask that you.....not defer this but that
you vote no on the designation at this time,recognizing that it can be brought
forward at a future time, and that as...development plans and...realities occur, that
may be appropriate. The other thing that....I....I was gonna comment on tonight
and that I will briefly comment on is process. Um, we've talked with some of you
about process and the issue of process is a bigger one than just our building, and
one that I've heard you talk about...with regard to a lot of, uh, zoning issues this
evening. When it comes to historic preservation, urn, and the guidelines that are
outlined in the booklet, that supports the zoning code, it seems to me that one
reason that....designations are researched and decisions are made about their
viability before owners are....informed. It may be that the....historical, um....that
the adversarial, uh, situations that sometimes develop between historic
preservationists and owners may be part of the background for why owners are
left out of that process until the designation is already researched and laid out.
But....I see that process as problematic and....as you consider this in the future, I
would encourage....um, everybody involved to think about more dialogue on the
front end, and I think that the conversation that Alicia and Ginalie and Linda and I
had, uh....is an example of that. Uh the conversations that we've had with our
neighboring prot....property owners, the Pagliai's, the Gilpins, other property
owners in that boc...block, I think those have all revealed that there is opportunity
here for dialogue to develop, um, positive things for the North Market Place
Square. Um....so, process is an issue, but for tonight, uh, we would urge that you
vote no on the historic landmark designation. We will certainly continue to
engage with Alicia and Ginalie and others who are interested in more dialogue
about the block where our property is located. We can imagine down the road
after, um....things have evolved overI think a longer period of time than Alicia
has in mind,because I think for us, as property owners, while historical research
and designation, uh, and signs and that sort of thing are important, it won't really
answer our underlying concerns about protecting, um, our investment. Uh,but we
can envision with enough time transpir....transpiring that we might, uh, welcome
a designation, a landmark designation. So I think that concludes me trying to
articulate quickly where we stand and if you have any questions I'd be happy to
answer 'em but....okay!
Throgmorton: Great. Thank you!
Swaim: Ginalie Swaim, Chair of the Historic Preservation Commission. Um....in answer
to Joy's thoughts about not being informed during the research, we don't really
know how a.....a property stacks up in terms of the criteria until the research is
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completed. Uh, so we can't...in terms of involving people or notifying them
that...I don't quite know how that would work. I very much don't want this to be
an adversarial, urn, sort of, uh, process and I'm sorry if, urn, if she felt it was that
way, and we will continue to look for ways,uh, to make it less so. Uh.....the
Historic Preservation Commission is the applicant in this case of the landmark
designation, and looking at all the various options, uh,we request that this be
deferred until February 1st of 2019.
Throgmorton: You said February 23rd....(several responding) 151, sorry! (several talking)
Thank you.
Smith: May I just clarify....
Throgmorton: Sure!
Smith: ...one point. Uh, I just,because this is a public hearing, I wanna clarify Ginalie
that when I talked about adversarial situations between Historic Preservation and
property owners, I did not in any way mean to suggest that I felt, urn.....that....
The situation between us and the Historic Preservation Commission was
adversarial. I was hypothesizing about why it might be that the process is
designed the way it is. Um, I think we've all worked hard to be civil about this.
Throgmorton: Thank you, Joy.
McGuire: Hi, Linda McGuire, 618 Ronald Street. Urn (clears throat) I'm surprised about,
uh, the....the consideration being put before you for deferral. Urn, and I think it...
it really helps to highlight the different position, situation of this particular
property compared to the other one, which, uh, their owners have been, um,
objecting. We heard tonight a lot of talk about context, and urn, I'll remind
everybody, maybe....many of you might not have been around,but this whole
block is the place going back to the first immigrants, um, that came to the city, uh,
you know, beer halls were not like college bars today. They....they were places
where people gathered together and drank beer because they....they were building
community, and um, that happened there. Um...uh, the first gay bar and the first
African American bar was at, on Market Street, urn, the Boulevard Room, uh, I
was on the Human Rights Commission when there was a complaint brought,but
that's a story for another day, um, Grace & Ruby's, the all-women's restaurant
was on Linn Street, where Bricks is now. Um, then we have our heirloom
businesses—John's Grocery, Hamburg Inn, Pagliai's Pizza, urn....I'm sure I'm
leaving some others out, and you know,the....the context for this is that we have
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this rich history that has yet to be fully discovered, even though some of the
buildings have gotten historic landmark, but....and we have this huge empty
space in the middle of it. And that really distinguishes not only your
consideration of context here, but also of process. And I believe,urn, that ...sorry,
I used to argue jury trials but this is (laughter) urn, I....I believe that, urn, we
would be shortchanging the....the whole process by, uh, by even deferring today.
Um, I....I'm not so hopeful that we....maybe cause I'm older, that February or the
end of the fall semester would be enough time, and I don't know the complexities
of how far one can defer things before one brings them up again, um, but I do
know that there is...is great interest, um, and....and the unknowns in this really
position this property as Joy said of being more, um, risky for the property owner.
Bob did a great job at your....at your, urn, work session, and I was there, and Bob,
correct me if I'm wrong, but I think when he was talking about how many stories
of development, 48 bedrooms could be put out in that area, and.....up to.....four
stories, with three additional, four....four....four(unable to clearly hear Miklo
from audience) four stories, um, and uh, and so think about four stories, you
know, that whole block, urn, and then this nice little gem, uh, in the middle of it.
So, you know, if this is the jewel that many people believe that it is, we need to
save the little jewel box, uh, that it's in now until we fully develop what that is.
Okay, and I really appreciate, urn, and I want to say this too, um....uh, Alicia and
Ginalie and, urn, and I think that what we're saying to you is we, urn, we
recognize the potential and....and the process that has been stalled, um, because
even Opticos said that this area needs more discussion about what the neighbors
and the property owners would like to see development there. Urn, and...and that
just even from last August when they submitted their report. Thank you.
Throgmorton: Thank you, Linda. Anyone else? All right, I'm not seein' anyone else. Here's a
surprising question—are you inclined to support....to agree (both talking)
Dilkes: Mayor...
Throgmorton: What?
Dilkes: That's a mistake. You don't....we already had the consult with P&Z (laughs)
so....
Throgmorton: Oh, so that's a mistake. Text is a mistake. Oh, I thought I made the mistake.
Cole: (mumbled) (several talking and laughing)
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Throgmorton: So just for....just for the sake of, uh....pleasing ourselves, we had a terrific
consultation with the Planning and Zoning Commission and with the Historic
Preservation Commission. Very fruitful, very informative. All right, so I need to
close the public hearing. No? Or have a motion to defer. One or the other, right?
Okay, so urn....huh.....all right, so I need to know whether you want to defer.
Cole: (mumbled) make a motion before we can talk or.....
Throgmorton: Yeah, that'd be the smart thing to do.
Cole: So moved.
Botchway: Second.
Throgmorton: (several talking) motion to defer.
Mims: Oh, okay, I just didn't know(several talking)
Throgmorton: ...discussion about whether to do that or not. So, uh, motion by Cole, second by
Botchway.
Dilkes: Let's get....motion to continue the public hearing until?
Cole: February Pt, 2009. 19!
Throgmorton: Yeah.
Miklo: Um,you may just want to make it your first meeting in February. I'm not sure if
the first falls on a Tuesday.
Cole: First Tuesday of February 2019.
Mims: I would say no. I think the property owner has asked for a vote,urn, I think...I
know it's process, um, to go back through if in fact that happens,but I think
there's a....there is a lot of discussion that needs to be done on that Northside and
I think....I think it's in fairness to the property owner that there's a vote.
Salih: I...I think also, you know,we don't have to defer it because I don't see a point of
deferring, if the owner is still like, uh, I will agree to defer it if the owner have a
potential of changing their mind. And also from here until...the main point of
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this, because of the area around it, we don't know what the plan of that area and
all this kind of parking lot around it. I went there and I saw it myself and I went
around the block and just try to have an idea, but that's why I think, you know, it
will take more than February 1st or the first Tuesday in February to figure out
what they gonna do in that area, so they can convince the owner. Because that
their fear, I guess, you know, what can happen around the area, all this parking
lot. What gonna be there? You know,that's why....I don't support the deferring.
We should move forward.
Botchway: I would agree, I'd like to vote tonight. I mean I ultimately I....I wanted the
motion on the table cause I wanted to talk about it, but yeah, I would....I would
like to vote tonight.
Taylor: I (clears throat) I also would, uh, want to proceed with the vote. I....I appreciate
Alicia's, uh, conversations and points about the students, but my concern is that
the moratorium expires June l51 and can't be put in place for another year, so I
think that's...that's a valid concern also.
Throgmorton: Well, uh, it's clear that there's a majority in favor of moving ahead tonight with
the vote. So,uh, we should have a....a vote on the motion that's on the floor. Is
this a voice vote?
Dilkes: It's voice vote.
Throgmorton: So, the motion is to defer until first meeting in February 2019. All in favor say
aye. Opposed. So, uh, the motion is defeated 5-2, I think, but it's defeated in any
event. All right.
Mims: 3-4 I think.
Throgmorton: Well I...I....
Mims: One, two, three.
Throgmorton: I voted, uh....
Mims: How did you vote? I didn't hear.
Throgmorton: I voted, uh, to....(both talking)
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Mims: To not defer?
Throgmorton: To not defer, sorry. (laughs) (several talking)
Dilkes: So it was Cole and Thomas.
Cole: Yep! Cole and Thomas.
Dilkes: Okay.
Throgmorton: All right, so uh, that means we need to have a motion to give first consideration.
b) Consider an Ordinance (First Consideration) (Deferred from 4/17)
Botchway: So moved.
Salih: Second.
Throgmorton: Moved by Botchway, second by Salih. Hold on for a second....are we okay?
Dilkes: We need to close the public hearing.
Throgmorton: Sony?
Dilkes: We need to close the public hearing.
Taylor: Oh, I thought we did!
Throgmorton: I thought I did. So, all right.
Dilkes: You're not continuing it so, yeah, we need to close it.
Throgmorton: Sony! So, yeah, sorry, so I'm gonna close the public hearing. (bangs gavel)
(laughter and several talking) For those of you who don't know, it's my computer
(several talking and laughing)
Botchway: Move first consideration.
Salih: Second.
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Throgmorton: All right. So, moved by Botchway, seconded by Salih. All right, discussion?
Mims: I am...I am not going to support the motion, and let me just start out by saying I...I
really,people....some people may not believe this, but it's true. I really do
appreciate the work that the Historic Preservation Commission and the Friends of
Historic Preservation do in this community. Urn, I believe it is tremendously
important work, and I think if....if those of you, Ginalie and Alicia and the other
people who work with you, were not doing that, we wouldn't have the 47-plus,
you know, local landmarks that we already have that....that do make Iowa City
what it is, and I think are very, very important for this community. And, um, I
hope that you won't give up on what you do, urn, and there's times we're gonna
agree on certain properties and there's times that we're gonna disagree. It's my
feeling, and my understanding, that the Historic Preservation Commission, and
P&Z, did....as they are charged to do, based on the various ordinances,
regulations, laws, etc., in terms of what they take into consideration and what they
do not take into consideration. But part of what this City Council, I believe, is
charged with taking into consideration,based on the fact that when a property
owner, uh, protests something like this, it....it sets us up for super-majority vote.
To me that charges us with looking at the property owner's interests, as well as
everything that has been brought to us by Historic Preservation and P&Z. I tend
to be one that leans more towards....if there is a disagreement, to protecting
property owners' rights, urn, I think this is an incredibly beautiful property. Urn, I
think the owners have done a great job with it, and I hope it will continue to be
preserved and I hope the opportunity, uh, for the landmark designation will
happen some day in the future, but I cannot....sit here and dismiss, uh, the interest
that property owners have in terms of the time and money and emotion and effort,
urn, that they have put into being property owners. And for that reason I will not
support the historic designation.
Salih: I will not support historic designation as well. And I have many reason for that.
Urn, I think really pretty much you're to designate this property (unable to
understand)because before such thing, as I tell you I was around, I saw the area.
Uh, I guess before the designation, they should be evident that the block will be
develop in a manner that enhance the historic attributes in the area. And also the
concern raise by the, you know,by the owner of the building, I guess is
legitimate. And it should carry weight with the Council. I appreciate their desire
to protect their initial investment in the property, because I guess if suddenly.....
Council come and go, I know that, you know,they....they, as I guess Bob said,
40-story building could be on the parking lot if it happen, but Council come and
go. Maybe in four years no one here and somebody else having the ideas and
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they will build this high-rise building around it. That's why I don't think I
should, you know, support that for now, until I know what gonna happen in the
area. And historic preservation is important, I swear it's important, and I support
a lot of them, and I appreciate all the work that you guys do. But for this is
specific one, I don't think I'm gonna support it, but I like it. I support all of them,
and I will continue support them, as long as, you know, in the same area and all
the surrounding(unable to understand) look like them, you know,just like the
houses in the residential area, where nothing gonna be change around it. Urn,
but....it is, you know, but that is not, you know, it is very important but is not the
only consideration in this block. There are many force at play here. That's why
I'm not supporting it.
Throgmorton: Do you wanna speak first? Go ahead.
Taylor: I am in favor of...of the designation, urn....I appreciate the property owner's
opinions and Susan spoke about, um, have....having the owner's interest in mind,
but I'm really kind of unsure of what that interest, I'm still not really clear what
that interest is, urn, and I...I just don't understand why we would treat this
property any differently from the others that we approved previously, the five
others that we approved. I....I (several talking)
Mims: Because they didn't protest.
Salih: Because the area...no, not only that. I guess for me because, you know, all the
houses that I saw look, you know, look awesome and all the area surround them
is already been develop. It never gonna change. I'm not gonna see like...but here
it is parking lot on the west side,parking lot I guess on the south side, and...and
also the two house from Mercy I guess on the like, uh, Gilbert. I don't know, you
know, and those old houses, and I don't know what gonna happen, maybe you
know, it will be somebody will come and build like, you know, high-rise building
and the value of this building will go down. You know even I talk to, uh, a real
estate person about the area and they told me the same thing. (unable to
understand)just by asking people I try to make up my mind, I just specifically this
one, I'm not supporting it.
Botchway: I didn't know if you were....were you done, Pauline? Okay. I...I don't like
unknowns. Um, you know, I....I think at times it may seem like I'm, uh,
somewhat kind of open and, as far as conversation up here, but I, you know, try to
bring a bit of levity to, urn, I think a....a deliberative process that we all engage
in. Um, I...I would say I see unknowns on both sides in this particular issue.
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What is clear to me however is what we asked our Historic Preservation to do and
not all the Members of Council were here at that time, um, and I don't...I mean, I
think it was important to hear the historical, um, the history of the particular
location that we're talking about and I appreciate that history and I was on
Council when I specifically,um,was a part of, you know, of voting, um, in favor
of the Historic Preservation doing this work. Um, I agree Council changed. I
mean that's...that's why votes happen, that's why we, uh, that's why, you know,
we go out and campaign and all that fun stuff, and I also think that property
interests...owners' interests change as well, and so....I'm not....I was....I was at
the first part of that, urn, historic planning, um, com...commission consultation,
and I heard Mark speak about some of the value, urn, from a property owner
standpoint that was concerning. Urn, I....I was not, I was not convinced from that
conversation that, urn, there would be a significant reduction, um, in value, um,
because I see historic properties throughout our town,um, historic property just
recently sold for a couple million dollars downtown. Um, I think that's a part of
the character and nature of Iowa City. I also appreciated Bob's presentation as far
as the....the....the, um, the potential property that could go, um, in place, uh,
adjacent to the current property that we're designating and, um, I did not feel like
it was a high-rise. I felt like,you know, from any Council's deliberation, and I
know I'm in a sense from a staggered standpoint gonna be here a little bit longer
than, I mean, you know what I mean, from a four-year standpoint maybe a little
bit longer than you, and so I feel very comfortable making the argument that, you
know, the historic nat....uh, neighborhood and nature of this particular district
needs to be upheld and...and having that conversation, um, and coming before us
....I....I just feel like.....again, and I guess I've been redundant on this issue,
tonight especially, it does come down to me as far as process is concerned and
while I do hear why there could be potential deviations from that process, I...I
don't....I don't, I'm not convinced as far as...um, any type of understanding of
where we fall on the level of unknowns. What is clear to me, as I said before, is
that we asked our Historic Preservation Commission to do some things in relation
to this, and I think we need to follow through with these designations. I would
agree with Pauline. I don't see why this is different, urn, than any other property
that we would designate. I do have concerns, as we move to the....end of our
meeting about how we can incorporate some of the comments about process,
because I....I don't want the rug to be...well it's not really pulled, but you know,
surprise people on this when we....even as we deliberate on this conversation or
maybe even think about doing research I think is an opportunity to let property
owners know, urn, but I actually am in favor of the Historic Preservation, and I'll
be voting yes for this designation tonight.
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Throgmorton: I'd like to take a shot at, uh, if we vote not to approve the designation, which
certainly appears to be the case now, there will be I think no meaningful
difference between that decision and our decision not to defer. The Commission
can always come back....a year from now with another application and we can
process it again. I....I don't see much difference between that and the way things
are, appear....uh, they're gonna be. So let me kind of signal a little bit about how
I think about this situa.....about the, uh, the proposed designation. In the end I'm
gonna vote in favor,just like Kingsley, uh, said. I agree it would be good to have
a plan, perhaps a form based code, in place for the entire block, and I personally
am committed to seeing such a plan developed. However, I think it's highly
unlikely that the City staff or the consultant will be able to complete such a plan
within the next year. That fact does introduce some uncertainty about what might
happen on the nearby properties,but I do not see how that fact should lead one to
conclude that the building should not be designated as an historic landmark. If
anything, the uncertainty is precisely why the building should be preserved.
Moreover, as Bob Miklo told us in his excellent presentation during the
consultation,uh, Joy and David the owners would be free to repair or replace the
non-historic addition and build something new behind the historic structure that
enhances the value of their property and the block as a whole. And designating as
a landmark now will enable the building to become an anchor for the design of
the block as a whole. So....I'm gonna vote in favor of it.
Thomas: I'm gonna vote in favor as well. I....I would of preferred the, uh, deferral, um,
which as I understood it could be continued beyond the first meeting in February
if necessary. Uh.....which I think would of given....given us a little bit more
nimble a position in terms of responding to contingencies and the unknown
future, but....uh, I was.....you know, clearly the....the Planning and Zoning and
Historic Preservation, uh, votes, uh....were....were pretty....pretty consistent and
clear, and I think like everyone on Council I'm also concerned with, you know,
the financial....viability of....of a project. I....I certainly don't want any historic
designation to compromise the financial viability of any property. Uh, and....and
I think at our consult I was convinced that...even in the worst case, uh, with our
current zoning, I didn't feel that the, um....development around 319 Bloomington
would be of such a scale and character that it would, uh, diminish the value of
the...of the property. Um....as Jim mentioned, I think in a way we will just
proceed, you know, I think fortunately we, you know, I have good faith in Joy and
David and.....and remaining true to this vision that I think all of us share, which is
how can we develop Northside Market Place,uh, in...in its fullness, uh, with 319
being one of the anchors of that vision. Um, so we will continue to do that, we
will work on the form based code, uh, one....one thought I would add to this
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discussion would be, uh, and this is a more general issue, is....and.....is looking at
the possibility of transfer of development rights, which I think is often one of
those issues which comes up, you know, the....the....the threat or concern about
the diminishment in value of a property. Uh, this has been an issue in the past. I
think it will be an issue in the future. I'm looking at the downtown and how that
might be a critical factor. Uh, if we can develop a....a strategy where we can
transfer those development rights, uh, from a property we wish to designate
historically, to an area where we're trying to encourage development, I think
that... that seems to me to promote these kinds of win-win situations which....
which I certainly advocate. I think we can also, through the form based coding,
um, improve on our CB-2 zoning, which is currently the case, to make sure that
we fine-time around 319 Bloomington so that any....you know, no one....no one
will feel in any way, uh, concerned that the, you know, the sunlight, the....the
qualities that...that we all strive to....to achieve on any one given property, uh,
will be maximized and optimized. So again, I....I think, you know.....for now I
will support, uh,the designation. It's not going to be.....it doesn't have the votes
to....to be supported by Council, but, um, with that....with that being the case, I
think just looking forward I just, you know, I'm looking forward to, you know,
what Linda was describing—a full bore kind of community conversation coming
up with a....a very clear, articulate vision for Northside Market Place.
Cole: I'm hopeful, as Jim talked about, that everyone can engage in the process that a
deferral would have achieved, which is this conversation will continue and that
people will try to work through some of these very, very tough issues. These
aren't easy issues. We love Iowa City. We love the historic properties, but there
are real issues about what percentage the property owner has to bear, and because
the property owner has made the objection, that's something we have to take into
consideration. Um, you know, I always have sort of a Pollyanna view of things. I
always like to find consent or resolution where possible. Urn, I was very hopeful
of the fact that the developer tal......or the property owner talked about, um,
possibly at some point in the future. Um, and that's one of the reasons why I was
hopeful for a deferral that would maybe be able to come to that. So we can still
get to that. Um, John talked about one tool we did not have, at least I'm pretty
sure we don't, is this transfer of development, urn, rights concept. I hope that we
can further explore that, because that's a tool that we have in our Riverfront
Crossings District that has been very effective at allowing us to get the
preservation and the growth at the same time, to eat our cake and have it too. Um,
hopefully we can continue to explore that. Um....but I can't support this, at least
in its current stage at this point. So, urn, I'm hopeful we can continue the
conversation, um,because we all love Iowa City, we know that, and I just
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commend everyone for the very thoughtful conversation we've had. Urn, they are
tough issues. That's tough for us all to....to come together to a resolution on this,
but I'm gonna vote no at this point.
Salih: I....I just wanna add something also. Like voting no today, that should not
discourage the Historic Preservation Commission to still reach out to that block
and you know talk about it,because as I hear from the owner, she said if she knew
a clear plan for that, she can still come back and do this. Then I guess I encourage
you to still like reaching out until you fmd....figure out what that, you know, like
a plan for the whole block, and....maybe this will come back to us again.
Throgmorton: Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call please. All right, so motion,uh,
fails on a 4-3 vote, with Mims, Cole, and Salih in the negative. All right. We can
move on, right? I'm not skipping anything I hope!
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Item 6. Planning and Zoning Matters
Item 6e Rezoning Historic Landmark Designation 410-412 North Clinton
Street—Ordinance rezoning property located at 410-412 North Clinton
Street from High Density MultiFamily Residential (RM-44) to RM-44 with a
Historic Preservation Overlay (RM-44/OHP). (REZ18-00007)
a) Public Hearing(Continued from 4/17)
Throgmorton: I'll open the public hearing. (bangs gavel) Good evening!
Michael: Good evening.
Throgmorton: Thanks for your patience!
Michael: You bet! Good evening, uh, I'm Bob Michael. I'm an attorney here in Iowa City
and I represent the, uh, new owners of the property at 410—412, uh, South
Clinton. They purchased the property here approximately two weeks ago. Urn, I
know Bob Crane and his attorneys have been here before you, and have, uh,
presented, uh,their feelings about, uh,the proposed, uh, rezoning, and I don't
want to go over and rehash all of those, although I do think they were good
reasons, uh, I don't wanna waste your time by going over them, uh, all again
today. Urn, I am here on behalf of the owners, requesting that you reject the
proposed rezoning and vote no. Urn....the, um....there's a few things that I do
want to, uh, discuss regarding the summary of the history of the property. I
noticed on the proposed, um....uh, rezoning, urn, resolution, or excuse me,
ordinance,urn, it discussed the history and the association with prominent people,
uh, who lived in Iowa City, and I was looking at the,uh, the summary here with
the packet that was submitted to the....to the City, and it's called the Cochran-
Sharpless-Dennis house and....and, uh,there's a summary of Dr. Cochran who
was the first owner of the house, uh, when it was first built. I...I looked at the
abstract,which real estate attorneys look at when they're reviewing, uh, title to a
property to make sure the seller has, uh, good title to the property, and I noticed
Dr. Cochran owned the property for about a year. Then he conveyed it away, and
uh, I just wanna point that out to you, uh, when it's called the Cochran-Sharpless-
Dennis house, that,uh, the first owner referred to, and all of the accomplishments
of his life, he lived....uh, excuse me, he owned the prop....or lived in the house
for approximately a year. Then the summary goes on to talk about how Samuel
Sharpless and his wife Priscilla owned the property. Well that's not quite true
either. Samuel was never an owner of the property. Priscilla Sharpless owned
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this property. There are some accomplishments here (mumbled) about Samuel
Sharpless, but Priscilla was the one that owned this property. She owned it until
she died. Uh, when she died she, uh, her estate went to several beneficiaries who
could not agree on how to divide up the estate so they sued each other and the
judge decided, uh, the property's gonna be sold, public auction, and so it was sold
to a gentleman who bought it and...and owned it for a short period of time and
then sold it to Mr. Dennis, Mr. Edwin Dennis, and that's how you get the Dennis,
uh, the third name on the....on the house. Now he lived in it for approximately
seven years, until his death. Urn, now the description here says that the property
was owned by Edwin and his wife Anna, again, that's....and that they bought the
house. Well that wasn't quite right. Edwin bought the house. When he died his
will said I'll give, uh, the home to my wife Anna, provided she never remarries.
And if she does remarry, I'm canceling the gift. And, urn, she did not remarry,
uh, she, um.....lived there until she passed away, and then ultimately her
daughter,uh, Gertrude, uh, lived there until approximately 1965. Now, in the
1960s, that's when an addition was put on the property, which is larger than the
initial home, and hopefully you've seen the property, but this is a....a picture of
the backside of the property, and it consists of apartments, and uh, it was built in
the 1960s. It's quite different than the initial construction of the property, uh,
from the I 800s. Now I, uh, I looked at your City ordinance, uh, the zoning and
the, um, historic, urn, overlay ordinance, and uh, the criteria for designating the
property as a historical landmark is, uh....if it's not verbatim it's almost verbatim
as...as, uh, what is being used by, um, the National Register. And, um, I've
looked at the ordinance and the criteria established by the National Register, and
it talks about a building, and it says a building can be designated as a historical
landmark. That's what your, uh, again, that's what your ordinance says,that's
what the National Register, uh, says, but the....the National Register Bulletins,
uh, publication on applying their criteria, uh, defines what a building is. Uh,parts
of buildings, such as interiors, facades, or wings are not eligible independent of
the rest of the existing building. The whole building must be considered and its
significant features must be identified. This is a....a building which, uh, again
more than half of it was built, uh, after, uh, 1960, and I think you need to consider
the whole building when you're trying to consider whether this is a.....should be
designated as a historical landmark. Uh, if this is, uh, my....my clients purchased
this property with the current zoning, RM-44, your highest density zoning, and,
uh, their purposes are to use the property consistent with their, um, with their
zoning. If....and Mr. Crane, the...you know, he's the local appraiser who's lived
in Iowa City and has been an appraiser here for decades. Uh, he was quite
concerned about the devaluation of his property, if it was designated historical,
uh, landmark. And,urn, you know, as uh.....uh, Bob mentioned, I believe at your
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joint session here the other night, um, that if, urn, I don't think he took into
consideration parking yet, but he thought that if it could be developed according
to the current zoning, 24 units could be placed on the property, which consists of
either eight three-bedrooms, 12 two-bedrooms, or 24 one-bedrooms,but he
thought that if the historical, uh, landmark designation would be made, that
approximately 80...85% of the bedrooms could still be used and applied to the
property. However, he's talking about bedrooms. He's not talking about units
there and there's a difference, uh,that the older part of the building, uh, has nine
bedrooms. Uh, bedrooms are not as valuable as units, um, they consist of a
bedroom and uh, the, uh, income, uh, that can be made from a bedroom is
different than a unit, and so, uh, I wanna point out that there's a difference
between 24 units versus 80...85% of that amount which consists of nine bedrooms
and the rest units. So in summary I would like to say that I don't believe that this,
uh, when you consider the whole building, uh, that it qualifies, uh, the criteria to
be established as a historical landmark. And the significant damage to the value
of the property and the property rights of my clients, uh, are....are.....are enough
of a damage that this property should not be rezoned with a historic landmark,uh,
overlay. If you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them.
Throgmorton: Any questions for Bob? I don't hear any but uh, it could be some questions'lI
come up as we go along. Anyone else? Bob?
Miklo: I would just like to clarify our zoning analysis wasn't on bedrooms. It was square
footage (mumbled) square footage, how it's divided into bedrooms is...it's
unknown, but it wasn't.....our analysis didn't conclude that they could get 85% of
the bedrooms. It was 85% of the square footage that you could get, without the
historic building on the property.
Throgmorton: Thanks, Bob.
Swaim: Ginalie Swaim. Um.....I don't have all my research with me in terms of, uh, the
Cochrans and Sharplesses and the Dermises. I do know that, urn, Mr. Cochran
was a Civil War surgeon, uh, during...and I believe that would be during the
period when he was,uh, when he owned the house, and I....I think I mentioned
another....at the May....last public hearing, that the stories of the women who
owned these houses or lived there are seldom discoverable anymore unless you
have the kinds of diaries and....and letters and such that, uh, so we find names
like Samuel Sharpless in the Johnson County Bank. We don't find names like
Priscilla because history was not written then that way. People's....women's
contributions even if it was supporting the family, um, getting the house cleaned,
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were not recorded, but the point on this house is that this is,um, its architectural
merit is significant. So, think about it, this house was built in 1865. This is the
same year when, on a day in the spring, Old Capitol columns were draped in
black, mourning crepe because of the memorial service the community held for
Abraham Lincoln, and only four blocks away, that same year, this house was built
and it looks very much as it did at that time. It very much gives an invaluable
sense of time and place. Uh, one of the Councilors at the joint session asked, um,
how much of Iowa City is, uh, is in conservation and historic, uh, districts, and...
uh, staff found that information for us. Uh, Iowa City is about.....16,710 acres.
The historic and conservation districts are about 413 acres. That's about 2.5% in
....in districts. The land....there's about 19 acres that are landmarks that are not
in districts. So....that.....19 acres is about 1/10th of 1% of Iowa City. That's how
much of Iowa City is devoted to individual landmarks that are not in districts.
Throgmorton: What was that percent again, Ginalie?
Swaim: One-tenth of 1%. So that....house that are not...or buildings that are not in a
district, conservation or historic. Of those individual landmarks, let's count the
number of landmarked houses built during that pivotal decade in U.S. history, the
1860s. I counted four. Four that are landmarks from....built in the 1860s that are
not in districts. I believe that it's time we added this one, and as one of the most
significant ones in the whole town. Thank you.
Throgmorton: Thank you, Ginalie. Anyone else? All right,hearing no one I need to find out
whether you are inclined to vote in accord with the Co....(several talking)
Mims: ...already done the (several talking)
Throgmorton: Yeah....(several talking) wish that wasn't there cause I'm doin' this by rote.
Sorry! My bad! So I need to close the public hearing. (bangs gavel) Can I have
a motion for first consideration please.
b) Consider an Ordinance (First Consideration) (Deferred from 4/17)
Botchway: So moved.
Salih: Second.
Throgmorton: Moved by Botchway, seconded by Salih. Discussion?
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Mims: Well I'm gonna do the same thing I did last time, and for me there's even
additional....I think reason to vote against this one. Um, I'm really concerned
with the amount of, urn, the addition, the size of that addition, the impact of that
on the historic nature of this building. Urn, so to me....and I don't have all the
regulations in front of me and so I don't, I mean, Mr. Michael said, you know,
more than 50% of that space now is not historic, and based on National Register
regulations, they would consider that then not eligible if I interpret....am
interpreting his words correctly. Um, and even if that weren't the case, again, and
I won't repeat all my comments from earlier, it's getting late, but I think the
property owners, uh, rights in these cases where they are protesting these
designations are incredibly important. But in this case I think there's a lot more
that goes along with it in terms of, uh, the adjustments and...and things that have
been done to this building. So I will not be supporting the designation.
Cole: I'm gonna speak up and say that I am going to support the designation, and while
I agree with Susan that the property owners' rights are important, I don't think
they're dispositive, and the reason why I'm coming to a different conclusion here
is because I think it presents a different location. It's in a historic neighborhood,
or not formally historic but the surrounding properties, urn, its proximity to the
University, um, I think frankly when I look at that backside, I look at something
that with the benefits and the waivers they could get in terms of parking, that
could easily be redeveloped with a.....I understand that we cannot protect that
back area, and that you could get a very intensive development of this property,
that wouldn't, urn.....significantly impinge on the value of the property. We
know that. I think that Bob had talked about 85%. So it's not a huge diminution,
urn, so that....that's where I'm at at this point. I think that this is a different
location, it's a different property, and I'm exercising my judgment of applying
different criteria and so I am going to support it in this instance.
Salih: I....I, also I agree with Rockne, because, you know, I'm gonna vote differently on
this. Uh, my point with the other one, the area is not being develop, but here I
guess, you know, it's surrounded by historic area and that's why I will support,
you know, the historic designation on this.
Botchway: I'm supportive, I am. I'm a little confused, but....
Mims: Then vote no!
Botchway: No, well I'm not confused about this particular piece. I'm more confused with the
difference between the two properties. Um, again, from a process standpoint, you
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know, I think our Historic Preservation Commission brought forth a property that
needs to be designated. Um, I would even say that,um,my concern is even more
heightened, urn,based on the recent purchase and how things could just, you
know, um, we're looking at historic preser....we're looking at preserving these
historic buildings and ultimately there are things that happen quickly that we...we
don't necessarily have any control of, and um, you know, I appreciate obviously
the Historic Preservation Commission's work on doing this to ensure that we are,
urn, preserving these properties, and so, uh, I'm gonna vote in favor, um, and say
yes.
Taylor: Uh, this one was a little more tough for me. Uh...although I have to admit that the
change in ownership kind of changed my opinion on that, cause that....that tended
to make me a little leery of.....of, uh.....going along with the denial of it. Uh....
the more...the longer I looked at the property, urn, that little building, it's just cute
little historic building, has a lot of history, is surrounded by, uh, across the street,
the dorm that I loved and lived in, very historic Currier Hall. Uh, so the history
aspect of it. I also think that with the new owners, uh, they...they should go along
with this and be, uh,happy that we designate this because as I think, uh, Kingsley
or somebody had brought up about the, like the parking waivers. If they...if they
want to, cause to be honest I think the property that's built in the back of it, those
apartments are not very attractive and I would be in favor of....of that being, uh,
redeveloped, uh, and I think perhaps a...having the property designated as historic,
perhaps would give them, um, more positive things to do with....to redevelop that
property in the rear. So I would be in favor of....going along (both talking)
Throgmorton: Yeah, so I wanna start with a couple basic facts. The Historic Preservation voted
unanimously in favor of the designation, and it did so by following the criteria,
uh,they're called upon to follow, and they even identified the building because
of...because the Council had asked them to, uh, actively identify buildings that
were....that warranted preservation. Also, the Planning and Zoning Commission
voted unanimously in favor of the designation. Uh, and they did so because
designating the building is consistent with the Comprehensive Plan in their
judgment. So, I think those two facts matter. Uh, I note that Bob Michael,
representing the new owner, and the previous owner and attorney, claim that
designating this property as an historic landmark would have a severe adverse
affect, or a restriction, on the value of the property. Uh,but we also held a
consultation with the Planning and Zoning Commission and Historic Preservation
Commission, a very fruitful and informative conversation, and during that, Bob
Miklo told us that a three-story building covering 50% of the site's footprint could
be developed with about 18,000 square foot....feet. If the house is preserved...a
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new building could be constructed in the back, with the loss of about only 13%
compared to the full redevelopment of the site. That's the way I understood it. I
hope that's correct, Bob. Uh, and that assumed the parking could be rev....could
be provided. During that same consultation, the Chair of the Historic Preservation
Commission, Ginalie Swaim, added that historic landmarks are eligible for
reduced parking requirements, which eases that, uh, complication. And of course
she also told us, reminded us, that this particular house is under threat of
demolition, primarily because it's located so close to the University and therefore
....um, an opportune, uh, situation for someone who provides housing for
students, etc., who live nearby the University. In any event, I....I think the, uh,
the concerns of the owner, uh, are, um.....um.....uh, not trivial, but I think they're
not so excessive as to warrant rejecting this particular proposal. So I'm gonna
vote in favor of the,uh, landmark designation.
Thomas: I'm also going to vote in favor of it, and I....I think I can just refer to....the
comments we've heard that also supported it. Uh....I....I would just simply add,
um, I find this project, uh, and to some degree 319 East Bloomington, which just
preceded it, two interesting examples of how, in this case a building from the
1860s has proven to be, um, a viable structure in terms of serving uses for that
very long period of time. Uh, it's seen on its property, which is I think
approximately a quarter of an acre, uh, an addition on the back, which kind of
reflects the...the nature of land use in that particular part of Iowa City, that we can
expect,uh, relatively high density of development,urn,because of its location,
and that.....despite that fact, the....the significance of the building, uh, and its
historic characters is not, in my view, was not significantly diminished in terms of
its frontage, which I think was critical to its historic significance. Uh, and then
the comments that Ginalie made tonight, which II had asked that question
at...at their, at our joint consultation, uh, are pretty interesting in that it....it speaks
to, for me, the....what I almost want to say the outside significance of historic
preservation in Iowa City that the image of this town, um, as historic is contingent
on such a small percentage of the overall population....overall acreage of the city.
Uh, you know,these buildings leave a deep impression and I think they....they
also add, and this is where I feel Council comes in, urn, insofar as I think the....
the impact on the financial aspects of it. Uh, as....as Jim mentioned, or not...or
you know, they're not trivial, but they're not significant in terms of the loss with
respect to square footage, but their value to the community,both,urn, in terms of
its sense of itself and...and I would argue even from a financial standpoint, uh,
more than make up the difference, uh, and so as as Council I think that's a very
important consideration. The amount of value that would be lost with the loss of
our historic heritage, uh, with this particular project, I think,would be, um, is....is
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really worth considering and.....and why I support the designation. (several
talking in background)
Cole: Yeah, I've already commented.
Throgmorton: Oh you had? Sony!
Cole: For once(both talking)
Throgmorton: Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call please. Motion carries 6-1.
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Item 7. FY2018 Budget Amendment-Amending the FY2018 Operating Budget
a) Public Hearing
Throgmorton: I'll open the public hearing. (bangs gavel) Hi there!
Budding: Hi! Jaclyn Budding. I'm the Budget Compliance Officer. Get out of here quick!
So this is the third and final budget amendment for FY2018. This includes larger
dollar amount items that have arisen since the last amendment that was done on
March 6th. Um on the revenue side, the larger ticket items include affordable
housing fee in lieu of about$140,000...er....$400,000, sorry; um, as well as
transfers related to the Van Buren water main and storm sewer project; uh,
insurance recovery is for the public housing CIP project for about 265,000;
contributions for the Animal Center expansion and study for about 200,000; and
then it also includes two police grants that the department received for, one for
data-driven justice for 173,000 and then the other from the DOJ for 75,500. Um,
and then the....the table on the left is just a snippet from the State forms that
includes the amounts from the total budget as certified last on March 6th, and then
the middle column includes the current, um, line items being amendment...
amended and then the far right column is the final budget. Then on the
expenditure side, uh, includes the Van Buren water main and storm sewer again
for the 285; the public housing CIP for the storm debt....storm damage for
265,000; the same 200,000 for the Animal Center; and then....expenditures for
the related police grant on the revenue side, as well as the Robert Lee fitness
equipment for 52,000. Um, a lot of the line items being amended have off-setting
of revenue and expenditure line items, so the total, um, hit to....there was a total
overall net budget increase of about 149,000 in fund balance. (mumbled) any
questions?
Throgmorton: Are there any questions? Looks like our affairs are being well managed
(laughter) yet again (laughs) Thank you. Would anybody else care to address
this topic? (laughter) If not I'm going to close the public hearing. (bangs gavel)
b) Consider a Resolution
Mims: Move the resolution.
Botchway: Second.
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Throgmorton: Moved by Mims, seconded by Botchway. Discussion? Hearing none, roll call
please. Motion carries 7-0. Thanks for your patience!
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Item 8. Approval of the CDBG/HOME budget- Consider a resolution adopting Iowa
City's FY19 Annual Action Plan which is a subpart of Iowa City's 2016-2020
Consolidated Plan (CITY STEPS)
a) Public Input
Throgmorton: Staff requests deferral to May 29. I'm gonna open the public input. (bangs gavel)
Would anybody like to address this? I see no one, so I'd like a motion to continue
public input to May 29.
Dilkes: And to defer the resolution.
Throgmorton: And to defer the resolution to that same date.
Mims: So moved.
Cole: Second.
Throgmorton: Moved by Mims (both talking)
Salih: I'm sorry, we....we cannot discuss this at all?
Throgmorton: We'll discuss it two weeks from now.
Salih: But, you know, if I...I already read what in the Action Plan and if....if we would
like to discuss it so they can come up with something different later, like rather
than ask...I don't know, but maybe you're not going to support it,but I think if we
gonna support.....(sighs) I don't know, but I would like to discuss it (laughs) I
would like....because I...you know, the....the Action Plan that I read, it have
something really I don't like it and I need to point it out.
Throgmorton: Well we haven't received all the public input yet. Doesn't that mean we can't
discuss this or not? I don't know what the legal requirement is.
Dilkes: There's really no public input to be had, it looks like.
Salih: Uh huh.
Throgmorton: Except maybe on the 29a'.
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Dilkes: Yeah, um....so you can't really close the public input and....move to your
discussion.
Throgmorton: Yeah, so we're gonna have to (both talking)
Salih: ...comment on it at all? So, you know....
Throgmorton: Well you'll have a chance, you know, two weeks from now. Just like (several
talking)
Salih: Like two week from now it will (several talking)
Throgmorton: Yeah, we'll have....(both talking)
Fruin: So.....what happened is it was scheduled to come before you today and then, uh,
we had a pleasant surprise in that our allocation increased substantially, which is
the first time in a long time (several talking)
Salih: Good! Yeah.
Fruin: Urn, so, uh, because it was over 20% increase, urn, we referred it back to HCDC
so that they can refine their recommendations. Basically program those additional
dollars and then send that recommendation back to the Council.
Salih: Okay. Sure! (mumbled)
Throgmorton: You'll get your shot!
Salih: Sure! (laughs)
Throgmorton: All right, so we....we have on the, we already have a motion, right, to defer,
continue the public input and defer resolution, the resolution, to May 29. Correct,
Kellie?
Salih: Yeah.
Throgmorton: All right. Yeah, so all in favor say aye. Opposed. Motion carries. (mumbled)
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Item 9. RAGBRAI—one temporary beverage garden- Ordinance amending Title 4,
entitled "Alcoholic Beverages," of the City Code to prohibit alcohol licenses
for new or expanded outdoor areas during RAGBRAI except for the
Downtown Beverage Garden and to prohibit glass containers of alcohol in
the Downtown Beverage Garden during RAGBRAI
Throgmorton: Could I have a motion to, for,uh, to have first consideration, please?
Botchway: So moved.
Salih: Second.
Throgmorton: Uh, moved by Botchway, seconded by Salih. Discussion?
Fruin: This is a little different than most of the liquor license applications in that the City
will be the license holder. Typically it's been Summer of the Arts or the Iowa
City Downtown District. Um, because this is not an event that they own, it's one
that we pursued as a city, we would be the license holder, which is fairly common
for cities that host RAGBRAI.
Throgmorton: Okay! Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call please. Motion carries 7-
0.
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Item 10. Council Appointments. Applicants MUST reside in Iowa City and be 18
years of age unless specific qualifications are stated
Item 10a Airport Commission
Throgmorton: We have two vacancies to fill four-year terms. We received an application from
Derek Lebrie. We have a one female requirement, one no requirement, so he's
eligible.
Mims: I will support him.
Botchway: Second.
Throgmorton: Sorry, I'm observing conversation over here.
Mims: I don't know that we need to second it. We usually do those all at once but....
Botchway: I meant(both talking and laughing)
Mims: I get it! (laughs) Yeah, he was the only application. He's a flight instructor. I
thought he was (several talking)
Throgmorton: I wanna see if I messed up somethin' here. Okay.
Item 10b Historic Preservation Commission (At-large)
Item 10c Historic Preservation Commission (College Green)
Item 10d Historic Preservation Commission (E. College St.)
Item 10e Historic Preservation Commission (Woodlawn)
Throgmorton: We have one vacancy to fill a three-year term and we received.....uh, a list of
applications for that at-large position.
Thomas: I....I'm personally familiar with Quinton Pitzen and ucn....would support his....
appointment.
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Mims: I would only suggest that in a way we look at all four of these at once because of
the gender requirements.
Throgmorton: Gender requirements, yeah. Tryin' to figure out how to balance all that (both
talking)
Mims: Because we've got two female, one male, and one non. And if I read this right,
we've got a number of applicants for at-large,we've got one for College Green,
one for East College Street, and one for Woodlawn. (several talking) Is that how
other people read it?
Botchway: Yes!
Mims: So....with only one male, when I looked at this, I thought Lee Shope was an
acceptable.....candidate for Woodlawn (several talking)
Cole: I would agree.
Mims: So that takes out the one male.
Throgmorton: Right.
Mims: I thought Helen Burford was an acceptable candidate for College Green.
Cole: Agreed.
Throgmorton: You know on that point, I...maybe I overlooked it because I do such things
occasionally, but I did not see...uh, the Hist....the College Green position in my
packet. So I....it....I'm just sayin' that. I think Helen Burford would be great in
that seat.
Botchway: Wait a minute, so go...sorry, I missed this. So can we go back to the first one? So
we decided who (both talking)
Throgmorton: Derek Lebrie....for the Airport Commission.
Botchway: I knew that part. I'm sorry, for the first (both talking)
Mims: Lee Shope for Woodlawn.
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Throgmorton: Yeah, he's, uh, Woodlawn District, next page. (several talking)
Mims: Lee Shope. He was the only applicant for Woodlawn(several talking) And
Helen Burford was the only applicant for College Green.
Taylor: Oh, I thought there was I thought Esther. (several talking)
Mims: Esther was East College, and (both talking)
Throgmorton: Yeah, that's different.
Mims: And, yeah, so Helen was the only one for College Green, correct?
Botchway: She's East College as well.
Taylor: She lives on East College also, isn't that....is that College Green?
Mims: I don't know, cause somebody applied for Jefferson and they don't live in the
Jefferson District, so.....
Botchway: (both talking) it does say College Green Historic District on her application. For
Helen Buford.
Throgmorton: Apparently there's a seat for the College Green area and another seat for the East
College Street area.
Taylor: Oh I see (both talking)
Throgmorton: So, Helen Burford, right? So, Susan, you were leadin' us to the point where we
need one female and one none.
Mims: Okay, so were we right that Helen Burford is for College Green? (several
responding)
Botchway: ...and it said on the application it said College Green Historic District (several
talking)
Mims: Okay. Then the way I worked through it, East College Street was Esther Baker,
which I would leave open right now. She's had one partial and three full terms.
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Botchway: Agree.
Mims: And just like we did with Jay Honohan with the Senior Center, I....I think we
should leave it open for right now.
Throgmorton: I don't object to that. (several talking in background)
Mims: So we've got one male and one female, so that leaves us either....really anything,
either gender,right, for at-large?
Throgmorton: Okay.
Botchway: Correct.
Throgmorton: Yeah and we have quite a few people to choose from.
Botchway: So (both talking)
Throgmorton: I thought Pitzen was, uh....an excellent applicant, as John suggested earlier.
Especially since Frank Wagner...we're not gonna, apparently not gonna reappoint
Frank Wagner.
Mims: I would agree.
Taylor: Right.
Thomas: And Quinton is a contractor, so....so he's very competent in the building trades,
uh, particularly historic preservation type construction work. So seemed like a
good fit.
Cole: I'd support Quinton.
Mims: That's fine.
Throgmorton: All right.
Botchway: I want to support Quinton as well, but my only....I would say my only piece to
this, so I spent....problem is I'm not able to search (mumbled) so I'm kind of
flipping back and forth. I just wanted us to make note of, um, I want....I don't
wanna mess up the name, to Shu Wan or(can't hear)....actually had him as my
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first person. I know it didn't have necessarily the same level of depth as some of
the other candidates, especially in relation to the qualifications for experience.
But I'm only noting that just because I'm gonna....there's gonna be a running
theme as we run through these. So....
Throgmorton: Yeah, so I'd like to follow up on a certain point. Am I right in thinking that we
need to have a....somebody from the building trades on the Commission, because
that's one reason for appointing Pitzer and, uh....
Mims: Not on Historic Preservation. (several talking)
Dilkes: Historic Preservation is based on the(several talking) representative from each
district(both talking)
Throgmorton: I say that because, uh, I don't know, maybe it was....
Dilkes: ....building trades.....
Throgmorton: I got some kind of message indicating (both talking) All right. So we don't have
to appoint Pitzer....Pitzen unless we want to.
Taylor: I agree with Kingsley on Shu Wan, um, he was....it was kind of close between he
and Quinton. Quinton with his remodeling experience and preservation, but um,
Tuhwon, uh, had a knowledge of....of the Commission and what it does, uh, has
history degrees, urn, he's young and, um, of course with the diversity he's, uh,
Chinese so would be kind of good to have someone of that background on one of
our commissions.
Mims: Yeah, I did not....I felt somebody who's been, one, in the country. It sounded
like for two years, or at least in Iowa City. I'm always.....cautious about
appointing students to some of these,just because of longevity, um, within the
community, urn, not totally against it, I mean,the...the Derek Lebrie's a student,
flight instructor and student there. Um.....I'm trying to flip through like
everybody else and find (both talking)
Botchway: It's tough.
Mims: Yeah, I know (both talking)
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Botchway: But I was, I mean that goes back to my point(mumbled) I mean level of diversity
on the commissions. So I do appreciate that additional piece, and I mean there's
some....there's some,there are some things that I kinda want to do, I don't know,
electronically to help kinda.....look at things online, but I would believe that
would present, I mean he would be, you know, our only diverse candidate on the
commission. Um, and then I would also, you know, again I go back to the....the
ultimately the answer that I would say isn't necessarily in the same line as, um,
the other applicant, but research does show when you have a diverse member on a
committee, you know, there's a deliberation that is different, relative to that,
um....uh, member who holds a diverse identity compared to, um, the more
homogeneous identities on our...on our board and commission. So again I...this is
a running theme, so that's why my first was, urn, and I feel bad not necessarily
knowing how to articulate the name Tuhwon,but urn....that's why I would....I
would support, um, his particular designation.
Mims: I'm comfortable with Pitzen.
Cole: Yeah, so I think Pitzen—we have four votes, don't we?
Throgmorton: For Pitzen?
Cole: Pitzen.
Throgmorton: Well, I don't know. You favored Pitzen, Rockne?
Cole: Yeah.
Throgmorton: John, you did? Susan,you do? (several responding) All right, let's go with
Pitzen. Let me make sure I'm writin' that down, but you make a very good point,
Kingsley, and so....we may get another opportunity on this.
Item 10f Housing & Community Development
Throgmorton: All right, the next is uh, Housing and Community Development. We have
three vacancies for full terms, three-year terms, and we have a list of....applicants.
Ten applications, ten applicants.
Mims: Well I would just note, I believe there's an error....in this list.
Throgmorton: Yeah, it should be nine.
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Mims: Bill Brandt should not be in this list. His application is for Planning and Zoning.
Taylor: That is correct, Susan.
Mims: I know.
Throgmorton: Yeah(several talking)
Mims: Bill Brandt should not be in this list. He's actually applied for Planning and
Zoning.
Salih: Oh! (several talking)
Taylor: ....Planning and Zoning. Correct.
Mims: Well my first one was Maria Padron. She's serving an unexpired term, um....and
so lots of times when we have people who've filled a partial term,we do tend to
give them opportunity for a full term.
Salih: Sure! I agree.
Mims: So....that would be my.....so that takes one female....
Botchway: Or one none.
Mims: Or one none, correct.
Cole: I agree.
Taylor: Right. I like Maria also, again because to fulfill her term and the diversity again.
She's Hispanic background.
Botchway: I would....oh, go ahead.
Salih: I like Maria and Megan.
Throgmorton: Sony, you like who?
Botchway: Megan Alter.
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Salih: Megan Alter and Maria, yeah. Like us two women.
Cole: I support Megan Alter too. I was going to recommend her.
Thomas: I had those two (talking in background)
Botchway: I was actually going to support, uh, June Park. Um.....but I also like Megan
Alter. So I'm.....I'm not necessarily as.....
Mims: I'm sorry, who was the other one you were gonna.....
Botchway: June Park. Did I not write (both talking)
Throgmorton: It's not on my list!
Mims: Park?
Cole: She was on one of these. Yeah. (several talking) I think she was for HCDC,
wasn't she, or was that(several talking)
Mims: ....Human Rights (several talking)
Botchway: Never mind! (laughs) (several talking)
Mims: And I had David Smith as my other one.
Salih: I like David Smith too.
Throgmorton: I liked, uh, Fairdish....Fairdich.
Botchway: Who did you say again?
Throgmorton: Uh, Jessica Fairdich.
Botchway: Wait a minute, we have two women now.
Salih: We have two women already. We need one man.
Botchway: We have Maria Padron and we have Megan Alter.
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Throgmorton: Well but we can have one female, one male, and one non or, you know(both
talking)
Mims: ...can only have two females.
Dilkes: We're gonna change that! We're gonna get the females and males appointed and
then leave the nons. It's too....(laughs) difficult! (laughter)
Throgmorton: It is too difficult!
Dilkes: Put the nons in (several talking)
Mims: Okay, so if we've got Maria Padron and then do we have four that want Megan?
(several responding) Okay, so that takes care of our female and our none. So I
had David Smith down as the male.
Botchway: I have (mumbled) make sure I'm doin' that right.
Cole: Isn't Mazu Human Rights or was I (both talking)
Taylor: Mazu was also Human Rights (several talking)
Botchway: Oh, man, okay I do have my list messed up.
Throgmorton: Did you say Balavo?
Mims: David Smith.
Throgmorton: Oh!
Salih: David Smith.
Throgmorton: So (both talking)
Taylor: Both the males were good, uh....
Cole: ....Mitch...is it Mitch (both talking)
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Taylor: Mitchell....Brose, uh, I just had...concerns, he's applying for Johnson County, if
there would be any conflict with that but he had a good understanding of what the
commission does.
Botchway: I....I have some concerns about David Smith. Um.....I feel a bit awkward about
those concerns. How do....
Thomas: Well I liked Mitchell, so I don't know if you have any concerns about Mitchell.
Botchway: I don't have concerns about Mitchell.
Cole: Yeah, I like Mitchell.
Taylor: I like Mitchell, except for if there was any conflict(several talking)
Salih: ...David Smith and I like Mitchell too.
Mims: When you talk about diversity, I thought David brought some characteristics to it
that others don't.
Botchway: Correct. No I...I would agree, I mean yeah,believe me this was a...this was a
tough one.
Cole: I want Mi....I like Mitch.
Mims: I prefer David.
Botchway: How did I mess this up? Sorry, I'm looking at my notes.
Throgmorton: All right, I'm hearing lots of names bein' thrown around so (both talking)
Taylor: ....toss up between Mitchell and David (both talking)
Throgmorton: ....for Smith....who else is being proposed? I mean we already got Padron and
Alter, but in terms of;uh (several talking)
Thomas: Brouse....(both talking)
Throgmorton: Yeah, I have Brouse as a possibility and
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Mims: And David Smith (several talking)
Throgmorton: All right, so.....let's see......uh, well, uh, you know I'm.....you know not knowing
any of them really personally, I'd go with Smith.
Cole: Looks like we have four votes for(several talking)
Throgmorton: I don't know. Who's in favor of Brouse?
Cole: I am.
Throgmorton: One, two, three, four. All right, that settles that.
Botchway: So we're on to Planning and Zoning?
Item lOg Human Rights Commission
Throgmorton: Uh(several talking) Human Rights Commission,unless we want to defer that to
our next meeting(several talking) All right.
Mims: Well we just have one female,right?
Botchway: Yeah.
Mims: So I just....left all the males off(laughter and several talking)
Throgmorton: So hold on for just a second. This is Item 10g, Human Rights Commission, one
vacancy to fill an unexpired term upon appointment. We have, what, 18 female
applicants. (several talking)
Thomas: I support Jiyun, who, uh.....
Botchway: Yeah, that's what I messed up on (several talking) separate my list. I would
agree!
Cole: I think Jiyun's awesome. She's great, but I really like Bijou, urn, I don't know if
she.....had the opportunity to talk with her. Um, it's my understanding she's a
Congolese leader; incredibly articulate,passionate, very idea oriented, urn, Bijou
has a lot of terrific ideas too and I think she'll be able to serve in other capacities,
but I was very impressed with Bijou.
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Throgmorton: I'd like to say I know, of course I know Jiyun as well and I think very
high...highly of her,but Bijou is phenomenal.
Cole: That's what I (both talking)
Throgmorton: I think she has tremendous potential.
Cole: Yeah!
Throgmorton: I don't know if you said this already, but she works at ACT. She's a translator.
She's fluent in, I don't know, five languages—French, Arabic, Swahili, a tribal
language which I can't remember the name of, and English.
Cole: (several talking) ...random phone calls to get on a commission that turned into a
really good conversation (laughs) so I was....
Taylor: This was a tough one! Everybody(both talking)
Cole: ...run for Council some day, I mean she's very impressive!
Taylor: Their applications, they were all so passionate about why they wanted to be on it
and their knowledge of it, uh, Jiyun is....is a wonderful person and would be good
on it also but Bijou reached out, obviously had called me too and, uh, she'd
spoken to Stefanie Bowers about it and, uh....so she....and she's Congolese. I...I
think she'd be....she'd be good for it too. I would go with Bijou.
Mims: That's fine!
Salih: Okay, yeah.
Throgmorton: All right.
Salih: Let's go for it!
Item 10h Planning and Zoning Commission
Throgmorton: We have one more to go! 10H, Planning and Zoning Commission. We have two
vacancies to fill a five-year term and four applicants—Larry Baker, Doug
Boothroy, Billie Townsend, and Bill Brandt.
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Salih: I like Billie Townsend and Larry Baker.
Cole: Me too!
Throgmorton: I strongly support Billie Townsend.
Mims: I would say Billie Townsend and....Bill Brandt. Larry's been on it before. I
think the idea, again, of getting new people on that haven't been on before.
Throgmorton: Yeah, but that was 4...35, 40....almost 40 years ago.
Mims: Well, still giving new people an opportunity.
Taylor: I of course......uh, Billie would be wonderful on that and, um.....I would be
supporting Bill Brandt. I think....she said Larry. He's been there, done that.
Been on the Council even. Urn....and....and because of that may have even had
some ties, which is why I had some concerns about Doug Boothroy. I applaud
him for in his retirement wanting to do this but I think he might be just a little too
close to....to some of like the developers and things, so I'd say Bill Brandt and
Billie Townsend.
Botchway: I'm supportive of Billie. Um.....I had Larry as well. But I....I'm hearing some
.....where we at for Larry, or.....(several talking) Oh. I'm supportive of Bill. I
do....I do think, you know, I would agree with, you know, in general, it's a
process for me, so I would generally say that I like to see new members on
Planning and Zoning Commissions. And I'm supportive of his application.
Throgmorton: Potential conflict of interest. Let me see if this really is one. Uh, Bill Brandt has
done electrical work at the house owned by my wife for 10 years now. Uh, you
know....I talk to him once a year(laughs)
Botchway: I don't know, it may be a conflict you think is bad! (laughs)
Throgmorton: How many are supporting Bill Brandt?
Salih: How many what? (several responding)
Throgmorton: ....Brandt. One, two, three.
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Botchway: What? I thought I had four! I thought you just told me I had four! (several
talking)
Throgmorton: Well, how many are supporting(several talking) All right, how many support
Larry Baker? How many support Larry Baker?
Mims: I'd be curious why.
Throgmorton: Uh, yeah. Well I think he has a lot of experience, uh, havin' to do with the issues
that will be faced by the Planning and Zoning Commission, uh....primarily most
recently as, uh....um, service on the Board of Adjustment. And prior to that, two
times being on the City Council,but quite a long time ago—20 and 30 years ago.
Mims: But (mumbled)really interested to go back and look at the P&Z appointments
we've made since the last election, two years ago. And I think we've appointed a
lot of people who don't have...haven't had any experience on P&Z, and haven't
had any experience in other things. I think this is an attachment to somebody that
you know and not.....continuing with the things that have been said from that
election of diversity and new people and giving other people opportunities.
Throgmorton: I know, speaking for myself, I know all four of the individuals pretty well.
Mims: I....I just find it interesting because I knew when Bill Brandt applied there were a
number of people said there's no way this Council will put Bill Brandt on the
P&Z.
Botchway: I like Larry, so I mean Larry, I know he watches, so don't take this personally
(laughter) Don't write on my Facebook page! (laughter and several talking)
Mims: I think the opportunities (several talking) I think the opportunity of expanding
who's on there, giving different people an opportunity instead of.....recycling
people,urn, even if it has been a lot of years, and I think this goes and flies in the
face of what people in this Council have said about giving different people
opportunities.
Throgmorton: All right, uh, I think (several talking) Yeah, let me....let me state some names
here.
Botchway: Are we gonna.....quick question, Jim, before you go through. Do we need to do
these separately or....can we do them all (several talking)
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Throgmorton: ...all at once.
Mims: I'm gonna vote no. I'll just....I'm gonna vote no cause I think the P&Z is....
Throgmorton: All right, so we, uh,the motion would be to....appoint Derek Lebrie to the Airport
Commission, Quinton Pitzen to the Historic Preservation Commission for an at-
large seat, Helen Burford to the Commission for....for a College Green seat, uh...
Lee Shope to the Historic Preservation Commission for a Woodlawn seat, uh,
what's her name, Padron, Alter, and......Bro...Brouse to the Housing and
Community Development Commission, Beshu Malibu to the Human Rights
Commission, and Billie Townsend and Larry Baker to the Planning and Zoning
Commission. Could I have a motion to that effect please?
Botchway: So (several talking)
Salih: ...move.
Throgmorton: Moved by Botchway, seconded by Salih. All in favor say aye. Opposed. Motion
carries. Huh? No?
Taylor: Yeah. No.
Throgmorton: Motion carries 5-2. Could I have a motion to accept correspondence please?
Botchway: So moved.
Salih: Second.
Throgmorton: Moved by Botchway, seconded by Salih. All in favor say aye. Opposed. Motion
carries.
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Item 12. Community Comment [if necessary] (items not on the agenda)
Stewart: Hi, Gustave Stewart,UISG Liaison. I'm gonna keep this short and sweet because
I know it's late and....um, all that, but as you probably all know, commencement
occurred last weekend. Over 4,000 undergraduate students and many graduate
students graduated.
Throgmorton: It's too bad Ben didn't make it.
Stewart: Yeah! (laughter) So, urn, and....and after this weekend, I kind of reflected back
on how.....basically that all these students, they're going through and they're
spending several years in Iowa City, and Iowa City does have an impact on them,
as well as the University has,urn, the Iowa City community. That wherever they
go, whether they're going, urn, somewhere else or they're staying in the area, that
they're going to have a little bit of Iowa City in them, um,just by being here for
several years. Urn, so.....yeah, the....what....these decisions we're making here
make an impact on the students. Urn, and visa versa, so.....just a thought!
Throgmorton: Fabulous! Thank you, Gustave.
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Item 13. City Council Information
Throgmorton: I want to bring up one thing and then I'm not going to mention anything else, uh,
on my list here. It's a pretty long list, but....uh, the Mayors Innovation Project
will be holding its annual meeting in Grand Rapids, Michigan, from August 22nd
through 24th. I plan to attend and I wonder if any one of you might like to join
me. We are already members of the Mayors Innovation Project so there's no
registration fee. Uh,there would be hotel accommodations and whatever travel's
involved. And....so, um....uh....as I understand it, they're gonna discuss
equitable economic development, creating healthy urban forests, using smart city
technology, and several other topics. I can tell you more about the Mayors
Innovation Project later on.
Botchway: When'd you say it was?
Throgmorton: (several talking) August 22 through 24. It's Wednesday through Friday.
Botchway: Super interested (mumbled)
Mims: I might be.
Salih: I might.
Taylor: I might be too.
Throgmorton: Well, think about it. We don't have to....I think it's the 25th of May is like the
deadline for applying and not havin' to pay some higher registration fee, but we
don't have to pay registration fees so.....okay! So, um, let's see, where was
(mumbled)um, Kingsley! You have anything you want to tell us?
Botchway: Quick—Iowa Arena Fieldhouse groundbreaking tomorrow. Um, Iowa City shop
crawl on Friday. Third annual inside-out, uh, fundraiser on the....19th and then
I'll be running in the Celebrity Mile for Get Moving for Healthy Kids on the 20th!
It's going to be interesting!
Throgmorton: Maz?
Salih: Oh! I guess we went to the (mumbled) grand opening(unable to understand)
(laughs) I like the store. It's really....big and huge. A lot of people came. Great!
Um......that's on (mumbled) Uh....I don't remember if I have something. As a
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City Councilperson I spoke to Kirkwood Elementary School students and you
know,just give them hope and....you know, encourage them to be (unable to
understand) What else (mumbled) City Council and tomorrow we gonna go to
KXIC, right? In morning. Uh.....besides the rally was yesterday at the, for the,
urn, you know (unable to understand) ...and that's all!
Throgmorton: (mumbled) Rockne?
Cole: Yes, following up on Mount Pleasant (both talking) Oh, go ahead!
Throgmorton: Oh I'm sorry!
Salih: Ramadan will be tomorrow, or after tomorrow, I don't know. Yes (laughs)
Cole: So following up on Mount Pleasant, urn, on May 11t, 2000,just this past Friday,
I was in Postville, Iowa, to celebrate the 10th anniversary of the Postville raids, uh,
that occurred in 2008, and for those of you who don't know, um, that particular
raid involved nearly 389 people detained, made felons within a week, and
removed to the country of Guatemala without,with very little process afforded
them during that entire process. It devastated the community, uh, they are just
now starting to recover. Um, one of the amazing things about Postville is a town
of, you know, 2,000 people that's one of the most diverse cities in the United
States in terms of for a town that size, and they've really built an incredible
community. It still is amazing, but they were essentially destroyed by the actions
of the federal government on that particular day. And, uh, Mount Pleasant hung
over those proceedings. Uh, those of us who were involved in the original raid in
one way or another were hopeful that this would never happen again, and we all
promised ourselves that we would stand up and speak out and stop, urn, this from
ever happening again, and Jim, to your point, you're absolutely correct. We have
no legal authority to stop the federal government from executing,uh, federal law.
They have the authority to do that. But I think it's very important in this day and
age that we continue to speak out. We have First Amendment rights and we can
speak out and stand out and say that these raids are wrong, uh, because one of the
people that did stop the raid is a woman who's about five foot one, 75-years-old,
uh, Sister Mary McCauley, and she was one of the key people that stopped that
raid because she had the moral authority to say no, and she was the one that
provided shelter to the immigrants who were afraid. They were afraid of what
was going on, and she did speak out and she did make a difference, and so I think
going forward, um, we as a Council have very little legal authority to stop any of
these raids and we understand that. Urn, you know, one of the issues that's come
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up,uh, in the Johnson County Board of Supervisor race is this question of poking
the bear. IL...if we speak out we might alienate the legislature. They may do
even more things to us. Well I think if....if there are raids that continue on, like
Mount Pleasant, and that happens throughout the state of Iowa, cause that's what
those of us who were afraid in the Postville process, that this was merely a
template, an operational template to be replicated across the United States, and
that was what they were planning on doing and I think that this is an operational
template for what they are planning on doing throughout the United States.
So....we may not have legal authority but I think we must speak out and strongly
condemn what happened as morally wrong, unacceptable, and we must always
stand on the side of the law, which is the United States Constitution. When
people talk about law enforcement, that is the law. The United States
Constitution. We have to ensure that those rights are honored. So that's that.
Urn, it was a very moving event. Urn, the good news is is that....as evil as those
raids were in 2008, they brought together so many different walks of life to stand
together, and so even though we are very sad by what had happened in Mount
Pleasant, uh, there was real power and energy there, and I think what Sister Mary
McCauley said is she concluded by saying that we're called to a summons, we're
summoned to speak out and to act and not stay silent because silence is
complicity, and so I think I call upon all of you and those of you who are listening
to answer Sister McCar....Sister Mary McCauley's summons to speak out and
stand up for our fellow human beings that deserve to be treated with basic respect.
So, that's all for that! Uh....onto more prosaic matters, uh, it is Bike to Work
Week, or month, and I'm bike today, and there's gonna be....I'm gonna be biking
home after the meeting today, and uh, there's gonna be an event tomorrow, urn,
May 16a', 5:30. It's the, uh, Co-Op to Co-Op Ride, so I encourage people to
check that out. I think it starts at the old New Pi to the new New Pi,but double
check that, and keep looking at that particular calendar for all those various
events, uh, cause that's a terrific event. For a guy like me that maybe needs to
lose a few pounds, biking's really important. What better way to lower your
carbon footprint, get some exercise, build some community then biking to work,
so I encourage everyone to check that out!
Thomas: Nothing for me.
Mims: Nothing.
Throgmorton: I'm not going to say anything else. Geoff?
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Taylor: You missed me! (laughs) And I had a few things to say! A...a lot's been
happening in the last few weeks. I'll try to be quick though. Uh, early on in the
month, obviously, a lot of us were there at the groundbreaking for Augusta Place.
That was on May 3`d. Urn, May 6U'with the Garden Party at Wetherby. It was a
nice event and not really well attended but Grow Johnson County and Global
Foods, give thanks to them. They had some wonderful food and even the kids
got, uh, excited about planting. Grow Johnson gave ya a big planter and....and
choice of a pepper or a tomato plant. Uh, let's see, mentioned Joann's Fabrics
already on the 10`s. I was just happy to see the Market Place and things going
into Market Place. That's a really great thing! Talking about the Bike...Bike to
Work Week, I participated yesterday in the bike,bus, car race challenge.
Throgmorton: How did that go?
Taylor: Uh, the bike's won, but uh, the bus driver,uh, bus driver Mike,he had to...he
made, it was a regular bus, that made the regular stop outside of the Coralville
Library. So he was on his regular route. So he had to continue to make stops. He
made six or seven stops along the way, and the bikes could just keep going,
although, uh, they say we made it in record time, uh, from the Coralville Library
to Iowa City Library in only 17 minutes. So that's pretty good time. Just goes to
show that you can ride the transit system and still get to where you wanna go. So
that was fun! Um....let's see here.....oh, and Saturday evening, uh, the Senior
Center, went to a wonderful event. The Folk Machine concert. If folks have
never seen the Folk Machine, you've got to look for their next concert. It was at
the Englert. It's a wonderful group of, uh, older folks, down to the youngest were
like five or six-years-old, up like 70 or 80-years-old and just a really fun event
with some folk music and that was really fun. Um....this Saturday, May 19th, uh,
there's a minimum wage discussion at CWJ. Isn't it?
Salih: Yeah but you know we gonna postpone it (laughs)
Taylor: Well, scratch that then! Scratch that, it was gonna be a great event. But uh, and
last but not least, urn,just congrats to all the recent U of 1 grads,uh, including my
daughter, and uh, best wishes to all of them for their, uh, future and hope that that
might include staying in Iowa City, and just on a side note, I noticed as they were
announcing the masters graduate, there was a boatload of urban and regional
planning graduates, so they're gonna be out there and...and helpin' to plan the
community, so that was...that was great to see! (several talking)
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Botchway: ....I agree with, congratulations to your daughter. I don't agree with a car ever
beating a bike! (several talking) Impossible!
Throgmorton: All right, moving along. Geoff you said no.
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Item 14. Report on items from city staff
a) City Manager
Throgmorton: Ashley?
Monroe: Fifteen seconds. Uh, we met with the Climate Action Plan Steering Committee
this morning. Um, long meeting, but pro....productive and look for us ramping
up communications about the plan and getting everybody excited about the
community meeting on the 11'h of July, um, and then the other two things, uh,
more going on at the Senior Center, but uh, these are inter-generational events so
teens to adults, um, there's a trivia night starts at 5:00 on Thursday the 17th, and
then the Come As You Are Iowa City Pride is holding like a dance party at 8:00
on Friday, and it's free.
Botchway: That was a liberal 15 seconds! (laughter) But good information!
Monroe: I tried! (laughs)
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