HomeMy WebLinkAbout2018-11-06 Transcription Page 1
Council Present: Cole, Mims, Salih, Teague, Taylor,Thomas, Throgmorton
Staff Present: Fruin, Monroe, Andrew, Dilkes, Fruehling, Sitzman, Laverman, Lehmann,
Rackis, Russett, Ford, Bockenstedt, Meitner, Grier, Havel, Knoche,
Nurnberg
Others Present: Stewart (UISG)
Discuss height bonus allowances for 12 Court Street [IP31:
Throgmorton/All right, so we're gonna begin the Iowa City City Council work session for
Tuesday, November the 6th, 2018. So,just for background, I wanna state a couple facts.
On the 4th of September we condensed the second and third readings concerning the
rezoning of 12 Court Street and we voted unanimously, 6-0 that is, to rezone that site
from RM-44 to RFCSD. So our task now is to begin clarifying our views with regard to
the possible provision of height bonuses for the site. So, it's my understanding that in
just a minute, Ann and Danielle are just....are both of you going to do it just a minute,
Ann and Danielle will....or just Danielle? Yeah, sorry, thank you. Will provide us with
background information and...if I state this incorrectly,just correct me when you come
up, okay? Uh,background information about first what the Riverfront Crossings District
master plan calls for in this area. Little bit about how that plan was developed.
Secondly, what the Riverfront Crossings Districts form based code calls for in the area
and how that code was developed. And thirdly, what the form based code calls out,
identifies as possible justifications for height bonuses. Right? Okay, good! So, before
Danielle begins, I want to express my own doubt that one work session will provide us
with sufficient time to work through the topic. I can explain that if you want. I have like
four reasons why I believe that to be the case. But rather than waste time going through
them (laughs) uh, I just want ya to know I think it's pretty doubtful we'll be able to get
through it. I might be proved wrong....and....and if that's the case, dandy! For now
however, let's turn things over to Danielle! Good evening!
Sitzman/Good evening. Thank you, Mayor and Council. I think, urn, what I'veDanielle
Sitzman,NDS. What I've been invited to do is kind of set the table for your discussion
of this property and I hopefully will get through my presentation in about 15 minutes,
leaving you plenty of time to do that. Um, as the Mayor indicated, we're going to cover a
couple things tonight. I've kind of laid them out in this outline. First I'm gonna go
through kind of the....the background and basics of the comprehensive plan, or the
master plan, for this district, and the creation of the form based code, which is its
implementation. Then I'm going to talk a little bit more about the development process,
specifically in bonus heights, and then I'm going to bring it down to the level of this
particular property so that you can have the information at your fingertips for that
discussion. So getting started, I'm gonna kinda go quickly at the beginning here and
slow down as we get farther in. Um, there is a comprehensive plan adopted for this
district. It's called the Downtown and Riverfront Crossings Master Plan. It's what we
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would consider a district plan. Urn, it's built on a....a previous plan adopted in 2013, urn,
for the Riverfront Crossings area and as you can see, urn, actually led to the adoption of a
form based code in 14 with some amendments in 16. Urn, similar to other
comprehensive planning efforts, the master plan started (both talking)
Throgmorton/Danielle, excuse me. If it takes you 17 minutes you're okay. I think you need to
slow down(both talking)
Sitzman/ Sure!
Throgmorton/Because we have several new Council Members up here (both talking)
Sitzman/ Sure!
Throgmorton/And....(both talking)
Sitzman/There will be a section about this particular property and the comprehensive plan again
at the end, drilling down kind of more into the details of it. Urn,but big picture,high
level is where I'm kind of starting with this. (mumbled) like I said, other comprehensive
planning efforts, it's gonna start with a....a good comprehensive plan's gonna start with
the context. So looking at the location, in this instance, the existing natural features, like
flood plain green space and toro....topography,the built environment, and then
specifically in this planning process, emphasizing more the development potential and the
market analysis that was, uh, explored for, uh, the district. It did include a robust
engagement standard....strategy that included a variety of ways for the consultant that
worked with us to engage our community stakeholders. Kind of started off with an
assessment workshop, um, day-long event with staff and key stakeholders, including
residents,urn,property owners,business owners, and developers. Um, there were some
specific one-on-one interviews conducted, um, also there was, uh, two visioning
workshops held, um, in the evenings, open to everyone in the general public. Urn, one
focused on the downtown and one focused on the west Riverfront area. Urn, that activity
included a strength, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats format analysis and some
voting activities, which you can see here and some of the folks participating in that. I
said there.....there was also a market analysis conducted. Urn, specifically looking at
housing and office market, uh,potential (mumbled) the supply and demand in the area
for...and the potential challenges for development of those two types of uses. And then
there was a three-day long design charrette, which is a fairly unique feature to this
particular planning process, and it merged the results of the, uh,previous engagement
activities, urn,through a kind of.....if you're familiar with design charrette, kind of an
iterative process where,urn, those ideas are tested and kind of, um,re-evaluated and
developed through a consensus process. Over a hundred people participated in, uh, that
design charrette, which is a significant commitment of time from our community. Urn,
we really felt like that was a good process to have gone through, and really...gave
credence to the....the vision that was developed through that process. Urn, the result of
the process was a framework of elements to be explored and described in the master plan.
They're listed here on the slide. They range from, urn, transit, uh, opportunities for,uh,
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multiple modes of...or ways for people to get around,public art, student housing, natural
space, and green features. And those framework elements really then led to the master
plan goals. The goals of the plan were based on, like I said, that community visioning
process, really focused on preserving the best of downtown and building upon its
strengths, making the Riverfront Crossings area a complement to downtown,making
good use of the Ralston Creek,um, in the area, and planning for several modes of
transportation, like,uh, biking and walking, and even passenger rail. And so as with
other comprehensive plans,there's usually a map that you can refer back to. Um, the
master plan has a large map, like this one, that knitted altogether(mumbled) in each sub-
district of the area there are finer details. So in this map, uh, what you....somewhat
unique to this, is that there's the white-black massing of the buildings, kind of shown....
showing, uh, in 3-D the redevelopment potential throughout the district. Um, so, uh, the
implementation of that vision, uh, in this case was a form based code. Urn, it's intended
....a form based code is intended to realize more of a mixed-use podes...pedestrian-
oriented,uh, development style. Urn, a form based code includes specific standards for
the placement and forms of buildings. Their use, uh, a little bit about use,but mostly
about the form of the building, rather than regulating the uses inside of the building. So
it's gonna talk about, like I said, building height, sizes, placement on the lot, frontages,
setbacks, and things like that, as well as parking. A form based code is really a beneficial
way to go about implementing a mixed-use district. It's kind of the marriage of, uh,
several kinds of tools, urn, it's one tool to do both, uh, a calibrated and customized, urn,
implementation for your city. It mixes together both, urn....the....the intent to have
design control over your area. So like I said, the forms of the buildings are regulated.
Urn, but also encouraging a mix of uses. So not too much regulation or separation of
uses. Hopefully, um, form based code are intended to realize, urn, higher residential
dens....densities, better mix of uses, like I said. Urn, mix of uses helps reduce, urn,
vehicle miles and, urn, reap other benefits that we generally are trying to achieve in our
planning efforts here in the city. Urn, re....requiring less land for parking because there's
less demand for...for driving, and then also through redevelopment increasing property
values and tax base. Um.....the master plan itself did identify eight sub-districts,
included the downtown. Seven of those sub-districts were then, urn, incorporated into the
form based code, um, and...and further refined, uh, in the form based code,uh, those
areas. So they're named here. You have the South Downtown, the University District,
Central Crossings, Gilbert District, Park, West Riverfront, and South Gilbert. So slow
down a little bit and we're gonna talk a little bit more about the development process and
bonus heights specifically. I put this slide together hopefully to help visualize the
development process. Some of you are visual learners, like myself, hopefully. As you
look at this slide, if you look from the left side of the slide to the right, it's gonna lay out
the development process. So, a....text highlighted in red is the part the City Council
would typically have some participation in. On the left hand side is the general process
of land development, including annexing land or making it part of the city, assigning a
zoning class to it, urn, subdividing it in some way. Um, those steps can be combined, in
some cases there might be separate steps that the development goes through, but
generally all land development is going to go through most of these steps. Height bonus
is somewhat specific, um, to this....specific to this district. Urn, and you'll see that the
black arrow there diverts to the middle column. So in a project, urn, in the form based
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code district, if there were no height bonus it would continue on through this process,but
if there's a height bonus request, it gets diverted to a separate, uh, design review process.
And that's.....you're probably familiar with level 1 and level 2 design review. So that
center column is the level 1 design review. A level 1 design review is something that's
administra....administratively done by staff. So the center column would be what staff
would be working on with a height bonus request up to a certain limit. So staff, there's a
staff committee called the Form Based Code Committee. It would review such
applications using both the master plan and the form based code standards. Urn, that
group, uh, which I am a part of, urn, we have the authority to grant up to two stories of
height above, um, base maximum heights, and I'll talk a little bit about base heights and
bonus heights to kind of clarify those, but just try to keep in mind at this point that two
stories is, uh, up to two stories can be approved through a level 1 design review. So that
if that were the case, um, once that design review is completed, the process would revert
back to the left column and go through the remaining more administrative steps. So a site
plan review and building permits, and then eventual construction. If in that design review
there are more than two stories in height being requested, then it would get kicked over to
the third column, which is a level 2 design review and does, uh, as the red text indicate,
includes City Council in that approval process. So,urn, what that would usually entail
would be sta....staff doing a review of the project, summarizing and then forwarding on a
memo to City Council for,uh, consideration. So there are some other instances where
it's not just the height that, uh, would trigger a review by City Council. It's also a
specific, uh,basis for the height request. So requests that are based on historic
preservation transfer, uh, public right-of-way transfers, or any open space transfers are
also automatically reviewed by City Council. So once City Council would have the
chance to comment, uh, make a decision on that bonus request and,uh, after that the
process would go back to the more staff administrative reviews, um, of the final steps
there. I think that's all I wanted to tell ya about that one for now. It is important to
understand that those bonus requests in the level I and level 2 design review are not a by
right, um....uh, standard. They don't automatically trigger just because, urn, you've
requested them. They all have to go through an evaluation process,whether it's a staff
level 1 or with City Council at level 2, and there's some basic criteria that have to be met.
Urn,basically the request for the extra bonus in height has to be justified by some sort of
public benefit, and in our code we've spelled out in general what a public benefit would
be,um, and what (mumbled) expect to see in any application, regardless of the request.
So staff,uh, would look to the goals expressed in the master plan to inform our review of
applications with these four standards. They really do things like building and site
design, urn, quality of materials, and the way the project contributes to the character and
quality of the neighborhood. There are 10....bonus types included in the form based code
district. There are other bonus types elsewhere in our code,urn, so there may be some
other ones that you've seen, but these are the 10 specific to the form based code district.
Urn,they're open space, historic preservation,public right-of-way, office space,public
art, uh, green or energy efficient building design, student housing, hotel space, workforce
or affordable housing, and elder housing. They, urn, are structured in a way that some of
them have prerequisites that must be met in order to be even considered. So for example,
um,the City wouldn't accept a(mumbled) right-of-way dedication for an area where we
don't want it or need a street, so that would be a prerequisite for a street. Um,they also
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do have some requirements for them. So if they're calling out say for example office
space, it's to be a certain caliber of office space, class A. Um, it has to be located on an
upper floor, for example, and it could not include residential. So the second column
includes, urn, kind of the requirements of each one of those. And then there's a way to
calculate the bonus. So if it's based on square footages,there's, um, an explanation of
how those square footages would be calculated. Um, if it's a, um, ratio for example with
office space, you get two floors for every one floor of office space. Those are defined.
The energy and green building standard actually has a gradation of possible awards built
into it. And then finally there is....in some cases a limit on the number of floors that
could be awarded through each type of bonus. Um, if there's no limit, it's specified here.
If there is a limit, there's a number in the column. So for example for public art,the most
you could get is one additional floor through donation for public art. Urn, so I mentioned
that there's something unique in the form based code as well with height. Urn, what
we've, as staff, refer to as base height and bonus height. I'll walk that, uh, through that
for you. Urn, in most zoning districts there's a maximum height. It just is...maximum
building height. In this district there's actually two areas on....in the subdistrict that
require a minimum height, which is somewhat unique, urn, as well. Um, the intention of
a minimum height is to kind of create a....a.....a enjoyable space at street level and
buildings are part of that....that public space, so ensuring that there's a minimum height
to create that pleasant effect at the ground level for pedestrian. Um....there are upper
floor stepbacks required in different districts and at different heights, depending on the
overall building height and then bonuses. So this slide here shows the base maximum
height. So later we'll be talking about the South Downtown District, which is the area
shown in red and that eight there indicates that the maximum base height is eight. So if
you were to apply for no bonuses, the maximum height of your building could be eight
stories. Um, when we talk about bonus height,then there's also a maximum there. Urn,
the maximums are built in for, uh, a cap, uh, where bonuses would otherwise have no
cap. So like I said in that, uh, of the 10 bonus....um,potential bonuses, there are some
that you could, a developer could apply for, up to an unlimited amount. This would....
this would apply a cap on those amounts. So in the red district here, South Downtown,
the bonus....the max bonus height is 15 stories. Again, if it's two stories or more it could
be a level 1 staff design review, uh,two or less stories. If it's more than that, then it goes
on to the level 2 design review. So this map shows all projects in the Riverfront
Crossings. Um....where, uh, so then the question is where have bonuses been applied.
Um, so if we take out the smaller scale retail only, the map starts to look something like
this. So you have the projects that have occurred. They're mixed-use housing or hotel.
Of those projects, the ones highlighted in yellow are the ones that have applied for bonus
height, or the City Council level 2 design review. So that includes, uh, 316 S. Madison,
the Tate Apartment building; The Rise; Hy...Hyatt Place Hotel and the Hil....Hilton
Garden Inn. Um, so there are 14 projects overall that have been approved in the
Riverfront Crossings. These are the four that have requested bonus height through a level
2 design review. Only three of these have actually been built using that bonus height, uh,
that was given. But I'll get to that in a second. And this is a summary of those four
projects. Uh, their addresses and what subdistricts they were in. Three of the projects
were in the South Downtown District. That would be the 316 S. Madison, The Rise, and
the Hilton Garden. One of the projects was outside of that district in a separate
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subdistrict called Central Crossings, and that would be the Tate Arms Apartment. Urn,
this table shows you the base maximum height and the total height that, urn, was awarded
and the bonus that they used to get there, and I'll go through these individually so you
can get a little more detail. Urn, the first project, um, was called The View. It's at 316 S.
Madison. Urn,this is the project that was not actually built to its full, uh,bonus height
award. The photo on the....or the elevation on the left is the proposal that was made and
that was granted bonus height. The, uh, elevation on the right is the elevation of what
was actually, uh, constructed. This came through in November of 2014 for a level 2
design review with City Council. Um, they were requesting their bonus height based on,
uh, student housing, provision of student housing, and meeting their prerequisites and
requirements of the student housing bonus section, as well as the green building or en..
......efficient building, uh, design standard. They were to, uh, construct it to a LEED
gold standard. Uh, they were approved. They did a plan. They were approved for those
seven additional stories. However, it was not constructed to that. The second project to
apply for, uh, level 2 design review was later, uh, January 2015. Uh, as I said this was
for a historic preservation, uh, credit. Uh, in this case, urn, the building on the left was
constructed with one additional floor, due to a transfer of, uh, development potential from
the building on the right, which is the Tate Arms building. Urn, in....in exchange for
land marking the Tate Arms building as an Iowa City historic landmark, the owner of the
building was able to generate, urn, about 35,000 square feet of development potential.
Um, 7,400 square feet of it, like I said, was used to the building to the left, to add one
additional story. That did go to City Council simply because, urn, it was on that list of
items that must come to City Council, not because of the number of stories of height.
Cole/How many floors does the 35,000 square feet translate to?
Sitzman/It was one....it was one story. Or was part of one story.
Throgmorton/Rockne, do you mean at the site (both talking)
Cole/ ...site, but how much it would transfer, weren't they able to transfer some of the
development rights?
Sitzman/So...what they transferred was the 7,400.
Cole/Okay.
Sitzman/ So they have, um....some ability to transfer more in the future....to another project,
should they so choose. The third project, uh, came through in September of 2015. Um,
this is the Rise on south Linn Street. It's a....underground parking with two towers rising
above it, for housing and hotel. Urn, it's on a sloping site so different parts of the
building are exposed to different heights, uh, so anywhere from 12 to 15 stories. Urn, it's
again in the South Downto...Downtown District, with a maximum height of eight stories,
but they applied for the bonus height. Urn, on....uh, using the bonus category of hotel,
high-quality hotel. They requested and were granted seven additional stories, uh, based
on that hotel requirement. And the fourth project is the Hilton Garden Inn on south
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Clinton Street. That was September of 2015. Urn (clears throat) again in the South
Downtown District,where eight stories are allowed by max,uh,base height. Urn, they
requested and were granted four additional bonus stories for qual....high-quality hotel
space. So.....they were able to increase the height of that building as well.
Throgmorton/You said they got four stories?
Sitzman/Four stories on that one. Yep! And the last project is one that did not go to City
Council because,uh, it was only a level 1 staff design review level project, uh,because it
was only one additional story. This is the Breckenridge Apartments on, uh, Dubuque
Street. Urn, during the design of the building,uh, it was discovered because of the way
we calculate heights and how we measure it from ground level that because of the sloping
site and the design of this building, enough of the foundation on the...what would be the
left side of this, urn, slide was exposed above ground to actually count as a story. So
instead of having a four-story building, um, this one was actually....measured as a five-
story building. So in order to,urn, not have to redesign the building, the applicant
applied for a bonus provision for public art. So they made a contribution to our public
art fund, urn, equaling 1% of their project value in exchange for one story bonus height.
So they increased this one where the base might....the base maximum height was four
stories. They were allowed to go to five. Technically just on that,urn, sloping end of the
building. So I'm gonna slow down a little bit more. Urn, I will tell you all that
information is available and some of these charts, so when we get to the end if you want
to see that again I could just simply leave that one up on the screen. But,urn,talking
specifically about east 12 Court Street now. Um, that's the area, as the Mayor said, was
rezoned recently to a Riverfront Crossings District, the Southtown....the South
Downtown District. It's outlined here in black. It's the location of the existing
Pentacrest Garden Apartments. As I said, it's in the South Downtown District, which is,
uh, shown here in the highlight. I'm gonna step back now from form based code back to
the visioning process that, um....as I indicated, started all of this and talk a little bit about
the master plan. In the master plan there are specifics of district descriptions, uh,
including this area. Um, it was identified as the South Downtown at that point as well.
There's a section that deals with the objectives,the character, and the development
potential for the South Downtown. Um, the South Downtown was described through that
process as the most urban district outside the downtown, an extension of the downtown
(mumbled) should really enhance, urn, its urban form as such. Urn, it's mostly, uh,
envisioned for residential and office, with retail only at strategic locations. Um.....there
were some visioning goals to bridge. Uh, Burlington Street is seen as a divide in the
downtown corridor and to find ways to (clears throat) improve Burlington Street so that it
was not a barrier for commerce and foot traffic,uh,between the downtown and this
district. Also, urn.....objectives of leveraging, uh, Clinton Street, uh, as a mobility spine,
through the....through the, uh, South Downtown District. Urn, I'm gonna walk through
this slide from left to right. In the map you can see there are numbered, little numbered
cross sections....here, starting with four. So I'm gonna go from left to right. The plan
actually called out, uh a development program for these areas specifically. So I'm just
gonna mention them,uh,here. The first one is the Capitol Street, uh, student housing
area. So this is actually the area of the Pentacrest Garden Apartments,urn, right here. So
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that's, uh, important to this discussion. It was identified as the Capitol Street student
housing. It was intention to break up this super-block. A super-block is a larger than
usual block. So here you're seeing these kind of square blocks as kind of the standard.
In this area there's a block that is much longer than that, so you wouldn't be able to, as
pedestrian, uh,travel these short distances to get where you're going. You'd have to go
all the way around this thing. So the intention was to,uh,reconnect Capitol Street and
break up that super-block. It's also identified as an ideal location, close to campus, urn,
and it was mentioned that additional height and density might be possible from what the
master plan actually envisioned, if parking could be accommodated underground on site.
One, two, and three,uh, run up and down Clinton Street here. Clinton Street is identified
as a key component of the sub-district. Number one is identified as the Clinton Street
gateway. It's really the, uh.....primary view into downtown from the Clinton Street
corridor. Um, at the time the master plan was being developed, the Music Building was
still under construction and, um, as you know the Hieronymus Square is just now under
construction. That thought was that these two new buildings would really create that
gateway into something new and different. Then the length of Clinton Street was
identified as a promenade. Um, that would be a primary route between the downtown
and the new Riverfront Crossing Park. It was reimagined as a promenade, as a more
welcoming pedestrian, bike-friendly,uh, and accommodating vehicles (mumbled)
experience that corridor. The third area in Clinton Street is (coughing in background,
unable to hear speaker) plaza. This is framed by the Courthouse here. The intention is
to, uh, create a focal point, an outdoor space for community events, um, in this kind of
civic area, and to enclose this space with a....a, several new,urn, mid-rise buildings, so
that you really get, um, a defined space here with some additional, urn (clears throat)
outdoor space. This was all before the Post Office changed use. The intention at the time
the master plan was developed was that if there was redevelopment potential there that it
could, um, significantly impact and improve that area. As you know, vision plans are
long-term plans. Um, we don't always see change immediately or in the direction that
we expect,but um, the thought was that,um, with the additional development (clears
throat)that there could be an additional emphasis on that, uh......civic area as well. The
other projects that are identified here are the, uh....City mixed-use parking facility and
then, uh, identifying Court Street as kind of the alternate circulator ideally for bicycle
traffic. I will just point out the, as....as I said that the, um, comprehensive plan also had a
market component study to it, and so in this same area each of these kind of buildings
was identified,um,by number,by potential of stories and square footage, um, as kind of
a rough estimate of the redevelopment potential throughout the corridor. So in this case,
the 12 E. Court would be buildings three and four, and six and seven. Switching back
over to form based code. So this is no longer the visioning process. This is the rules and
regulations that were adopted as ordinance to hopefully encourage private development
to come up with development proposals that, um.....uh, that the master plan had
envisioned. Urn.....much less sexy ordinance writing, but, urn.....you'll see here there
are standards for heights and setbacks, urn, listed out as specific criteria that have to be
met. There are a host of other components to a form based code, like I said, dealing with
frontages and parking and forms and shapes of buildings and their entrances, their
building materials, size and shapes of windows, all those details are encapsulated in the
form based code. Urn, so again just to reiterate, base and bonus height, we're talking
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about the red district here, which is the South Downtown, so the base maximum height
by right is eight stories. So with the rezoning in September they were given the
opportunity to go up to eight stories. If they were to apply for a bonus, the cap on that
bonus in this district would be 15 stories,um, and that cap would be reached through
combination of or single-use,um, depending on what bonus they applied for, if....and if
they have any caps. Um......this property is a little bit different than other properties,
simply because of the conditions that were placed on it as part of that rezoning. So I'm
gonna go through those next. Um,there were several, um....conditions placed as part of
the rezoning,which is fairly typical to have a conditioned rezoning. Um, I'm not gonna
go through each and every one of those,but there were conditions placed about the
phasing of the project, the timing of dedication for improvements to the street,um, the
team of architects that would be working on this and their qualifications, a statement
about affordable housing, uh,which is a requirement, and then the three specific
conditions that actually impact the development approval process that I'm gonna walk
you through. So the first one is a condition that the exterior design elevations, um, obtain
approval from the Planning Commission and that if a level 2 design review is required for
bonus height, the Planning Commission be involved, uh, then making a recommendation
to City Council. So let's go back to this slide. This is the slide I showed you (clears
throat) about the....the normal, um, level 1 and level 2 design re....uh, process, and so as
it relates to bonus height. This first condition added in what you're seeing here in orange,
urn, so essentially inserting the Planning Commission into this design review process,uh,
regardless of bonus height, but then also,um, if there is bonus...that requires level 2,
putting the Planning Commission over into that process as well. So that's what the first
condition did. Then the two other conditions I wanna point out have to do with, um....
conformance with the master plan. So there was a condition that,uh, was placed on this,
uh, development that it would substantially conform to the building footprint shown in
the Downtown/Riverfront's master plan. So that's these, uh, four buildings that I've been
pointing out. Um, and that any significant deviation from that footprint would trigger a
level 2 design review. And then also that a landscaped interior courtyard must be
provided between the two eastern most buildings. So let's go back to this, uh, slide
again. So you'll see here in orange, um, basically the additional requirement of City
Council review, um, if the deviations from the master plan are shown in the eventual
proposal. And I think I'm going to end there so that you have time to discuss. Um, I will
say that there are....I can bring up for you and leave, uh, on the screen the bonus height,
um, provisions, if they're helpful to look at. I also do have the entire list of every project
in the Riverfront Crossings. I went through the ones in yellow and the Breckenridge
Apartments. Uh, in this category you can see the comparison between the base height
and what was built. Urn, so you can see(clears throat) additional heights. Basically the
ones in white did not require any bonuses (mumbled) other than the Breckenridge. The
ones....the other ones do not. And again, if it's helpful to see the development process
laid out, I have those slides for you as well.
Throgmorton/Can you quickly go back to the slide that....your next to the last slide?
Sitzman/Uh.....which...this one?
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Throgmorton/Yeah. I....I just wanted to make sure I was tracking what you were telling us.
Sitzman/Okay. Sure. So would you like me to go through it again?
Throgmorton/Uh....sure.
Sitzman/ So....this.....this condition required substantial conformance with the building
footprints that are shown in the master plan, and so that would be the four buildings, kind
of fronting on Capitol Street, with a....the footprints in an L and a U shape around the
street, and the other one is the landscaped interior courtyard between east...the two
eastern most buildings. Being a requirement. Um....they're unique to this approval, um,
and so they would add into this approval process that if for some reason those are not
shown in the proposal, they would trigger a level 2 design review by City Council to
explain why.
Throgmorton/Right. Thank you. No....no doubt they would be, but I just wanted to make sure I
was tracking what you said. Okay, uh, great summary, Danielle! Uh, despite my
interrupting you early on.
Sitnnan/(mumbled)
Throgmorton/All right, we need to,uh, give our Council Members a chance to ask you any
questions or seek....or make some, any comments they feel they need to make, with
regard to what you've presented, mainly about the Riverfront Crossings District master
plan, what it calls for; the form based code standards,what they call for, and so on. Just
the material that Danielle presented. So,uh, does anybody wanna ask questions (both
talking)
Cole/I have a question. To get to 15, could you take us step by step what benefit the community
gets as we get up to 15? I had asked maybe an inartful question earlier about Tate Arms.
I understand at least some of the floors of the 15 will be from Tate Arms. So could you
break that down for us?
Sitzman/ So it's going to depend on what the developer chooses to...how they choose to design
their building. I don't know that I can tell you that there's a specific,uh, list of things
they'd have to check off to get to....I'm trying to back up to the slide that showed (both
talking)
Cole/Any one of those....
Sitzman/These things here.
Cole/Okay.
Sitzman/These are the basics that any proposal would be evaluated as far as is it a superior
design than otherwise, um.....staff would....would rely on the vision plan,the master
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plan, to go back and look at the goals and objectives of that, and to see what the
developer's proposing and how they would be accomplishing those.
Cole/ Say they wanted to transfer from Tate Arms in heights, how much could they add by virtue
of Tate Arms?
Sitzman/ So it depends on what the size of the floor is, but a....in the Rise, in the south tower of
the Rise, which is the apartment component of the Rise, a floor is about 30,000 square
feet of floor area. So they have about....mmmm, about 28,000 square feet from Tate, still
to be transferred. So it might be a floor, depending on the size of their floor.
Throgmorton/Depending on the size of the....the square footage...
Sitzman/ Square footage of the floor, the layout of the floor.
Throgmorton/The floors in I suppose four buildings.
Sitzman/Uh huh. And for historic preservation credits, it's a square footage transfer. So it's
square footage to square footage.
Throgmorton/How bout the rest of you?
Thomas/Danielle, is the, um....is this site the only site in the master plan that's identified as,
um....ideal for student housing?
Sitzman/The South District, uh, is definitely, urn, the South Downtown District. So not this site
only,but I think it's a....the South Downtown District in general is seen as close to
campus and therefore more appropriate than other districts for student housing. I'm not
as familiar with every section of the master plan, so I'm not sure I can tell ya that it's not
mentioned elsewhere, but specifically mentioned in the South Down District......
Downtown District as appropriate for student housing.
Thomas/And, um, there are a couple of...just in terms of the form based code as it applies to, uh,
you know,just development, uh, that I wanted to ask. One is what is the parking
requirement?
Sitzman/I'm not sure I'm prepared to answer that one for ya today. That's gonna come from
outside of the form based code. Urn, it's gonna be based on bedroom count, and so
depending on their mix of bedrooms, it would be based on that. There's some discounts
that can be applied as well, but depends on the development, urn....
Thomas/And is there a, um....bedroom maximum per unit?
Sitzman/Um, there's a...percentage, uh, 30%, uh three bedrooms or more cannot make up
more than 30% of your total mix. So there's a limit on the number of larger bedroom, uh,
units.
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Thomas/And is there a, uh,minimum, uh, unit size?
Sitzman/Uh, square footage?
Thomas/Uh huh.
Sitzman/That'd be controlled by the building code.
Thomas/ One...one other question I just recalled, uh, you didn't show the, um....from the master
plan there was a building height diagram...which was under the development standards.
Is that....is there a slide of that or is that just not part of(both talking)
Sitzman/Um, it's not on my slide deck so I....um, I'm not sure that I have....I don't have that
tonight. Yeah.
Thomas/Cause that....I think it's an important,personally I think that that's an important
reference, because you....it's something that came up in our TIF discussions. It was a
major issue with....when looking at the downtown, that building height diagram, uh, was
kind of central to that discussion, and uh, that diagram applies to this area as well. And
it....it had specifrc....uh, building heights laid out for the area, you know(both talking)
Sitzman/This is what I do have in the slide deck and this really goes to their market analysis as
much as anything. And so it does include building heights here.
Thomas/I mean what I...what I...will say is, uh, what....what I saw there was, in the building
heights diagram, was a....it was a reflection of the concept as represented here in that
the....the two, uh, north....the.....the two corners of the buildings on the north end where
Capitol meets Burlington,uh, were shown as....anywhere from seven to 15 stories. And
then the remainder of the building area was four to six stories.
Sahli/But did I see that there is 15 story where you have the red area, all of them say 15 or did I
miss that?
Sitzman/That's the....zoning code, which has a maximum height, urn, in it of 15, yes. So the
red district in the zoning code, which is this area, was allowed...is allowed under the
current zoning to go up to 15 with the(both talking)
Salih/ ....by the zoning code. Okay.
Teague/And when you say zoning code, you mean the form based code?
Sitzman/The form based is....code is in our zoning code, yes.
Throgmorton/But the base height is eight. Right? (several talking)
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Teague/They can go eight to 15, uh, with a level 2 Council approval. When you....when you
talked about the conditions, urn, the slide that, uh, the Mayor had you go back to, urn,
I.....I guess I'm a little....and that's the one to the, uh, bottom right, is the....what is that
condition actually referring to?
Sitzman/So in the master plan....the....white building layout incorporated a courtyard, and so I
think the intention of that condition was to tie the development to the master plan, again,
in the requirement that that courtyard as shown in the master plan, be a component of the
building design when it would proceed on.
Teague/ So this is access.....like just walking, is that what I'm (both talking)
Sitzman/Right, a ground level....a green space.
Teague/ Okay. Okay. All right. So if I understand this correctly, so the form based code,urn,
for this project specifically, urn, accordin' to it, it would just (mumbled) I mean it....it's
somethin' that was decided that it can go from eight to 15 with a type 2....
Sitzman/Right. It would (both talking) need to go through the process of a type 2 review. It
doesn't guarantee the heights have to be granted. It's not a by-right entitlement to those
heights. It's simply potential to propose a project that may be, uh, awarded those bonus
heights.
Teague/Okay. But is it fair to say that it's all a part of like the master plan?
Sitzman/It's all a part of the zoning code.
Teague/Okay.
Throgmorton/ So whether height bonuses are provided depends on our judgment.
Teague/Yes.
Taylor/And those bonuses would be given per building. It wouldn't necessarily be, say there
were four buildings, all four buildings could get the two bonus. It would be two for each,
two for this, two for that, two for this?
Sitzman/I think it would depend on how the applicant proposed their project, but for example
the Rise is one building even though it has two towers because of the underground
connection. So, uh.....I think you would see one proposal come forward and the bonus
heights for all of the towers of the....of the project be requested the same time. The
applicant could, I suppose, chose....choose to break them up and ask separately,
individually at different times, but....it could either be all at once or separately. It....but
you wouldn't make a decision specific to a design proposal.
Cole/How many floors do we get from the right-of-way designation?
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Sitzman/Urn, so we ran the numbers earlier(both talking) urn, assuming the same square
footage of right-of-way that we had access to, estimate earlier, it would be about 30,000
.....300,000 square feet that they could generate through a right-of-way dedication. So,
um, 38,000 square feet times the eight stories of height that they'd now have in zoning.
So if you divide that by....a typical floor at the Rise, that's about 11 floors in that....in
that math.
Cole/That would be spread out over the four buildings.
Throgmorton/Yeah, but again there's no right to that.
Cole/I understand that. I'm just asking the question (several talking)
Sitzman/It's about 330....if you add it plus with the Tate,the remaining Tate Ann, urn, height,
or historic transfer, um, they'd have about 330,000 square feet that they could transfer
somewhere.
Salih/Going back to what John said, there is a map that.....just like the Riversfront Crossing like
height maps or where did you see the height bein' design certain area, even by the zoning
it say 15.
Thomas/Yeah,there was a....it was in the back of the master plan where a set of development
standards....
Salih/Uh huh.
Thomas/And one of those standards was a building height diagram. So it gave....you know,
what Danielle has been showing was kind of the....what, a very specific, uh, yield
analysis for sites that are identified for development, which got into very fine grain
detailed,uh, building heights recommended, again,based on the market analysis. It was
all driven by that market analysis. So it....it was showing, uh, four and seven, you know,
with seven on the corners of Capitol and Burlington, and the remainder of the project
would be at four levels.
Salih/Even though Capitol Street will make it like all four are corners or they....would that in
consideration on the new map or before the, uh, Capitol Street go like all the way to
Burlington or....
Thomas/Um, I'm not sure I follow you, but there....
Salih/No I mean like....I understand that you say the two corners that facing, uh, what you call
it....
Thomas/Burlington.
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Salih/It will be facing Burlington.
Thomas/Yeah.
Salih/And...but is that after(unable to understand) like extended, right?
Thomas/Reopened, right.
Salih/Oh. Cause to me gonna be like four corners or....
Thomas/I...I think the design intent was in some respects similar to what we have in the
recommended in the downtown, and that was that high....locate high-rise buildings over
six stories, in terms of the, kind of the categories of building height, locate the taller
buildings on the corners, and so I think the concept here was let's create a gateway effect,
as you're coming into Riverfront Crossings...
Salih/(mumbled)
Thomas/ ....go with a taller structure, and then transition down as you get further south into the
district.
Salih/I see. Okay.
Thomas/ So that....so the point I'm trying to make is that that building height diagram gives
some flexibility, you know, in terms of the comprehensive plan, the master plan aspects
of this project....in terms of understanding what building heights could be on any given
location.
Throgmorton/And you're definitely not referring to these two birds-eye images (both talking)
Thomas/Yeah,these birds-eye images are of the....the development yield scenario. So it's
showing...you can see here, you know, like on the, you know, the image lower left, uh,
Burlington is on....to the north or to the top of the image. You can see how the building
complex that we're looking at pops up.
Salih/Uh huh.
Thomas/Right? And then the rest of the project is at that lower elevation or lower building
height.
Throgmorton/Okay, maybe, uh, you could provide us with that one image that John's referring
to. That would be helpful. I'd like to ask ya a couple questions. Or ask you one question
then maybe ask other, uh, other Council Members the other question. Uh, in prior
conversations several months ago, uh, our Council discussed, um....the extent to which
the public had been involved in development of the form based code, especially the
height bonus part of it. Now I know you weren't here, Danielle, uh, so it's....probably a
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bit awkward for you to try to answer this question,but.....can you,uh, enlighten us about
how much the public was involved at that stage? I mean we all agree they were very
much involved in the development of the Riverfront Crossings master plan. But I'm
askin' about (both talking)
Sitzman/I'm not sure I can answer that. I know that what I've seen....l mean the typical process
for enacting an ordinance for zoning code would involve public hearings and
presentations to the Planning Commission, at which the general public(both talking)
would participate. Um, so I'm sure that happened. Um, I'm also....I read in the minutes
that the pub....the Planning Commission discussed it extensively. I'm not sure I could
comment on what beyond that might have been the public involvement and that's stuff I
could certainly find that out for you and recount it.
Fruin/I can jump in on that a little bit. We did, uh, go back and look at the minutes of the
approval processes and....it definitely was multiple Planning and....and Zoning
Commission meetings. There was, uh, public input, um, at those meetings that came in
via email and, um, at the, uh, you know, at the meetings themselves,but it certainly
wasn't on a level of the master plan where there were charrettes and public meetings
outside of a formal meeting setting. And then really quickly just to get back to John's
question, I pulled up the building heights diagram. Um, I can't unfortunately throw it on
that screen, but uh, the corners of Court and Burlington are shown as seven to 15 stories,
and the balance of the site is shown as four to six stories.
Mims/And, Geoff, we've had discussion about this map before, at least the downtown part of it,
and I'm assuming it....it is the same for this entire thing, including Riverfront Crossings,
and that discussion was that this map was not even vetted by the group that really was
doing the comprehensive plan. I remember you gave us a memo a number of months
ago, maybe even as much as a year ago,that this had kind of gotten put in by the
consultant without really a vetting by staff or public involvement, if I have that somewhat
correct.
Fruin/Yeah. We did do a memo to the EDC Committee, during the TIF, uh,policy review, uh,
I....I'm sure that there was some level of staff vetting. I....I don't know, I don't think it
was very comprehensive, but it wouldn't have been in the plan without some level of
staff vetting. Um, we did go back and determine it really was not part of any public
vetting process. We found an image of it on one poster board at a....that was presented at
a public meeting, but it was never incorporated into the PowerPoints or part of; uh,
facilitated discussions with small groups and that sort of thing.
Mims/Okay. Thank you.
Throgmorton/Yeah, I think it's a reasonable question, Susan, or point to bring up. I...I think it
would apply in general to the....um, modest degree to which the public was involved in
the process of developing and vetting the height bonus portions of the form based code,
including in that map that you just referred to, Susan.
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Mims/Yeah, and I guess the only comment I would add to that is....I mean, the form based code
is the code. And we rely on the code in many, many situations, in every situation, when
we are rezoning, and so regardless of how much the public has chosen to be involved or
not in terms of coming to Planning and Zoning meetings and hearings, urn, you know,
when we....when we've made changes to the zoning code,they've had that same
opportunity with this, and regardless of the project, we always follow the code. So I...I,
the reason I bring that up is I....I'm getting the sense, and I felt this way in our previous
conversations,that sometimes there's the effort to place more emphasis on the comp plan
than on the code itself; and I think we have to keep in mind and in front of us what the
actual code is, as much as what the comp plan is.
Thomas/Yeah, I....I agree, I mean it's the....the comprehensive plan, which included the...the
building height diagram, is a way of, in my view, it helps inform how we think about
implementing the code. It...for example, uh, the code allows by right every building in
the South Downtown District to be a minimum,by right, eight stories. Urn, I...really
doubt that anyone imagines that every building in the South Downtown District is going
to be eight stories. So there's the....the.....building height diagram gives us some idea
of....of how that code requirement can be interpreted, uh, in a manner which gives us
some idea of how to....kind of in a more....urban design sense for example, to think
about where to place buildings at different heights.
Teague/You don't think it would go less than eight. You're just sayin' it'll be eight or higher?
Thomas/It could, you know, if you look at what we've seen built, um, the Midwest One Bank
building is, I believe, in the South Downtown District.
Sitzman/It's in the Central Crossings.
Thomas/Is it? I notic...I just noticed there was a(both talking)
Sitzman/Well, it could be. I don't have it in front of me. So....
Fruin/I think it's safe to say, and Danielle has the list, this list here, all those projects in white,
uh, with the exception of Breckenridge, are built at or below their base minimum. So you
can...you can go through and see where, you know, the Crossings development for
example, down by....on south Gilbert, by Big Grove, you know there was one instance
there where they were allowed six stories and they only built three, or they were allowed
six stories and only built five. (both talking)
Thomas/It's....it's, Hieronymus, which is in construction at the corner of Burlington and, um,
Clinton,will be seven stories. It's in the South Downtown District. I believe Midwest
One Bank is in the South Downtown, and it's six. So....you can built up to eight, but
there's no, you know, it's not necessary to (both talking)
Fruin/ ...recall correctly Midwest One was built under the....the former code (several talking)
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Sitzman/ ...not on the list because it predates the form, uh, form based code.
Throgmorton/ I wanna ask our Council Members a question, which really is in part based on, uh,
an email we received from a constituent, a member of the public. An email reads: No to
additional floors allowed. Eight floors is more than enough. So I....I'm not....not
agreeing with that particular person,but it does pose a question that we should at least
address and answer, and that is.....urn, are any height bonuses necessary on this site to
achieve the City's policy objectives? Do...do we need to, um, grant any height bonuses
to achieve our objectives? And we've already rezoned. It's eight....eight floors, by right.
Another two floors would be, uh, authorized through the staff review process. So, I'm...
it's a generic question, but it really comes in part from, uh, the email we received from
this, uh, resident of Iowa City.
Mims/I would say yes. (several talking)
Salih/What was your question?
Throgmorton/Do....do we need to authorize any height bonus for this site, in order to achieve
our policy objectives? Susan just said yes.
Mims/I'll give one specific example. I....I think, and....and we have coming before us this
transfer of development rights. Um...the developer in this case has, uh, square footage,
uh, that they can transfer based on the preservation of the Tate Arms building. If we start
setting a precedent of....um, offering transfer development rights for preservation, but the
developers can find no place to go, they're....they will not be using that as any incentive
to....for historic preservation. Urn, and I....I'm just giving that as an example, that, um,
and I think that's a huge consideration as we look at that other issue. I think also from a
policy standpoint for the City, I think we need more housing. Urn, I think we need more
student-oriented housing close to the University. I think we've talked before about that
taking pressure off the neighborhoods close to the University and so in terms of our
efforts on neighborhood stabilization. I could go on but I'll just leave it at that. I....I do
think there are reasons for, um, City benefits, City policy benefits, that warrant our
serious consideration of height bonuses here.
Throgmorton/So, I would agree with you, Susan, about Tate Arms,just flat out(laughs) straight
up, yeah. So....
Teague/I would say yes as well.
Thomas/Yeah, I....I think most obvious, um, opportunity with going taller than eight is the
transfer of development rights. It's something we've talked a lot about.
Throgmorton/Danielle, can you show us the slide that contains the list of, I don't know, 14 or
12,whatever it was,possible rationales for height bonuses? Thank you.
Sitzman/There were 10.
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Throgmorton/Thanks! You count better than I do! (laughter) Uh, so if we think certain policy
objectives can better be achieved by granting height bonuses, we need to be clear about
what those objectives are. So what do we wanna accomplish on this site? You know, so
we've got a list here. I can tell ya the ones that leap out at me as being appropriate for
some degree of possible height bonuses. Tate Antis, already mentioned. Possibly for the
right-of-way, though I have a case I wanna make about that,but there's certainly
potential there. Also, student housing. Su...I agree with Susan, we've talked about this
before. Student housing on this site is crucial. Affordable housing is a requirement,but
however many floors we permit has a bearing on how many affordable units there would
be, either on site or...through payment in lieu of. And so on. So I don't wanna just hog
the limelight here. I'm wondering, looking at this list, folks, which ones do you think are
policy objectives that warrant detailed consideration of possible height bonuses for this
site.
Cole/If I could maybe more of a little bit of an extended comment, and cut me off, Jim, if we'll
do that a little bit later, but...I....I gotta say, I think yes we need to go greater than eight,
and....l have major concerns in terms of how we've handled this process. Um, I don't
think that we should be taking and....and providing this amount of detail in terms of
providing direction to staff in this particular case. Now if we were talking about the
downtown, I would feel differently about that, urn, because I think the downtown is more
of a....space where there's a little bit more historic, but I think that we need to provide
clear direction as to stories, and I would leave it to the discretion of staff in terms of how
they wanna get to those stories. I think for me in terms of economic growth, we're
talkin' about $150 million investment and we're also talkin' about potentially up to $4
million of tax revenue, County, School, and City. I do not think that we can afford to
compromise that potential addition to our tax base. The second priority for me is jobs for
our residents and our community members. Um, we've talked a lot about aesthetics. We
have not talked a lot about who's going to be building this project. This is gonna be a
major economic development growth project for this community. Um, I think that we
have had it adequately vetted, and I think it is,urn, it does inhibit what we wanna do, if
this process is so....that we don't have enough clarity in terms of what we wanna do. So,
I think for me, urn, we have the Tate Arms. We know that that's gonna come. We know
that we're gonna have the, um......uh, transfer of the development, uh, the right-of-way,
and we're gonna get significant benefit from that. Urn, as to the other objectives, um,
students housing—that's already conditional, um,part of the conditional zoning
agreement. So, I just think we need to figure....focus more on the big picture here and,
uh, I....I'm comfortable providing clear direction, um, I'm ready to make a decision in
terms of where we go, which is 15 stories, urn, leave it to staff's discretion in terms of
what they come up with. We're gonna have the Planning and Zoning Commission is
gonna weigh in on this, and then it will come back before us, and finally related to the
public input, I don't see large numbers of the community, um, outraged about this
project. Um, I....I, we....it's been on the, urn, agenda for five to six months now.
There's been some feedback, urn, but not....I don't think people are outraged in terms of
what's bein' proposed. Some people are but it has not been large numbers of people. So
that's sort of where I'm comin' from. I think we do need to do the 15 story on all four
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and we need to provide clarity and consistency and not make it so difficult to realize the
benefits of the bonus height provisions.
Mims/I'll agree with you, Rockne. Urn, you kinda jumped ahead and I appreciate that.
Cole/We disagree on some things but I'm with ya on this one (both talking)
Mims/Yeah, I....I would agree with everything that you just said. Urn.....you've talked about
the things that I talk about a lot of times—the tax revenue,um, the people who...the jobs
that this will create in terms of the construction. Urn, the....I think the economic
development, I think the neighborhood stabilization pieces that I....that I've talked about,
urn, I think the design will come with a high-quality architectural firm that'll be working
with the developers, um, with the design review that'll come from P&Z. Urn, I think that
when you look at the form based code it addresses this as a possibility,um, and...and
even without looking, and I'm going to take just a second to go back, even if you....go
back and....bear with me one second, if I can flip back to.....in the comp plan,page 52,
because I think this is really important as we're talking about the comp plan versus the
form based code, and I'm almost there, bear with me. It's hundreds of pages of
document. In,this is in the introduction to the development opportunities, and again this
is on page 52 of the comprehensive plan and it is....it is even put in bold in this
paragraph. It's even bold, and it says, `It bears emphasizing the development
opportunities identified on the following pages are conceptual in nature. Like their
predecessors in previous planning efforts, their value is to identify visions and ideas for
specific areas. Successful visions will endure, but details will change and evolve as
projects are implemented.' And I think that's really, really important because the form
based code starts giving us some of those details and not every project, um, that height
map which we've talked a little bit about, I......I get concerned sometimes that we, you
know, fall into those as....as rigid, and again, I think this really, the fact that they even
put it in bold print in here and....and, emphasizing that these things are conceptual. Urn,
and also on page 61, and Danielle mentioned this earlier and I had mentioned it in the
editorial I wrote in the summer, the plan also mentions....and specifically for this site,
additional building height and density may be possible if parking demand is
accommodated underground or off site. So.....I'm with you, Rockne. I would like to see
us maximize the density on this site. I will tell you the other....I have some other
conditions that I would want to talk about proposing if we go to the 15, and they have
more to do with things like security and on-site maintenance and....and some of those
issues, but from a general standpoint, I'm on board with you, Rockne.
Stewart/I have a quick question for Danielle. Um, I was wondering with the student housing,
urn, it has, urn,management design and amenities as a requirement. What does that
exactly entail?
Sitzman/It's a large section and it would have made my table out of balance, so that section
actually has quite a few things that it talks about. Uh, security and management plan,urn,
certain amenities in the building that it would be required,um, I don't have it in front of
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me, but there's a list of about five or seven items specifically described, urn, that have to
do with that.....with those requirements.
Stewart/Okay. Yeah.
Throgmorton/ So I wanna disagree with Rockne and Susan and then I don't know what the rest
of y'all think. I'm sure you'll speak up. We've already upzoned the property five-fold.
We've increased the allowable density of development on that site by five, by multiple of
five. This means, uh, the developer can go from a current roughly 200 beds to roughly a
thousand beds. Don't hold me to the exact number but that's close enough. That
upzoning would in itself increase the tax base dramatically, from this particular site.
That's a good thing! I support that. That's the reason I supported the upzoning in the
first place. But....both of you are focusing on the gross property tax revenue coming
from this one site. You're not thinking about the net change in property tax revenue
associated with off-campus demand for student housing. So let me give you a few facts
I've uncovered here over the past several weeks, uh, as part of an related zoning,
something that had nothing to do with this. We received a market assessment, which
reported that rental vacancy rates had increased to 4.4% in 2017 and was expected to
increase to 7%by 2019, as a result of imminent completion of several new multi-family
projects. So there's an increase in the vacancy rate out there that's taking place. That's
one thing we hoped would...we would accomplish. We were hoping that would drive
rents down, and...And we think that would be a good thing. But, shortly before we
rezoned the property, I had a lengthy discussion with a person who owns,uh, a
substantial number of apartments and complexes. This particular person expressed
considerable concern about the recent and projected increase in rental housing vacancy
rates and drew my attention to the negative effects this is likely to have on the assessed
value of his property and on others like his. So he wor....he said think about the net
effect, not just the gross increase in property tax revenue. We also received a letter from
Larry Svoboda, the owner of Campus View Apartments. We got this before we did the
rezoning. He pretty much said the same thing. So, they have....they have their own self-
interest. We should recognize that. But I think they're also saying there's gonna be
multi....there will be some ripple effects of this particular project, if we go to basically
2,000 beds in the site. Uh, also University officials have told us that there will not be a
push in the near future to increase enrollment, and we know that the vacancy rate in
Mayflower apartments was down to something like 60%...not the vacancy rate, uh,
occupancy rate was down to about 60%,right about the time we,uh, we upzoned. So, we
don't know really what's gonna happen with student enrollment over time. So, my main
thin....point here is we should be thinking also about net property tax revenues rather
than just what would come from this one project. And we've already agreed to upzone it
five-fold.
Mims/I think there's a lot more benefit here than just the tax revenue. I mean Rockne
mentioned that and I said I agreed with him, and I agree there may be some decreases
other places,but one of our huge priorities has been neighborhood stabilization and
affordable housing, and I think this can assist us in going a long way in that as well. So
it's, to me it's a lot more than just the property tax increase, and I agree,and there's no
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way to quantify what you're talking about, Jim,because we can't project how much those
revenues may go down on other properties.
Throgmorton/Well having 1,000 beds on this site instead of 200 would go a long way toward
stabilizing neighborhoods, and uh, what was the other thing you mentioned? (both
talking) affordable housing, and it would result in another hundred units of affordable
housing. Si...simply by a....as a result of the upzoning we approved.
Mims/I don't think another hundred units. You're talking beds. (both talking)
Throgmorton/Beds, yeah. Thanks. I slip back and forth occasionally(both talking)
Thomas/I, you know, as to....Kellie include my....my letter that I had prepared earlier this year
and it was in the,uh, packet (clears throat) and it spoke to,um, you know what my
understanding of the master plan was and its basis in the market analysis,uh, which....
which I think was a really important aspect of the....of the, um, master plan, that it was a
market-based, form based code, with the intent being that that development could be
distributed throughout the district. I....in my mind one of the most important measures of
....of a plan like this, which is in effect try to bring city life to the...the area, uh, under
consideration, is what it will do to the street life and vitality of the district as a whole.
So...so the idea was given that market demand, how can we distribute it throughout the
district to achieve that goal? Um....so if you over-concentrate and, you know, the....the
sort of build-out to 15 stories is a dramatic concentration, um,that...that's taking a pretty
significant share of what we anticipate to be the, um,market demand within Riverfront
Crossings. Uh, Jim mentioned, you know, these other factors as well, in terms of there
has been I think to...to anyone living in Iowa City, a real surge in....in, urn, construction,
much of which is oriented toward student housing. So it....it seems to me we're...we're
kind of in a situation where, um,there....there is a real potential for overshooting with
lots of unforeseen consequences that could flow from that. Uh, the other thing I would
mention is, you know, the emphasis in the plan, uh, was on....as I mentioned in my letter,
on mid-rise. Mid-rise is a far-less expensive building type to construct. Now, you know,
we're....we're dealing with market conditions, so there's no way in which one can say,
well if you reduce your building costs, that necessarily will lead to a savings that will be
passed on to the occupant,but I...I think it is something we should be thinking about, that
these, uh, if we....if we significantly reduce the building costs associated with the project,
that...would lend itself for that housing to be more obtainable to the students, which I
think is an important, uh, consideration. The....the rents in the Rise, which I....I think of
as sort of our comparable to what....we're talking about with 15 story buildings on this
site, uh, the rents are pretty high! So...you know, from....in talking to the manager of
that facility, urn, the....and this gets back to some of the questions I asked Danielle,the...
the units which were....were three, you know, three occupants per unit were the ones that
were renting out. The ones that were studio and one-bedroom had a much higher
vacancy rate within the Rise. So....one, there're a number of questions that I have that I
think could be asked about the project. One has to do with, since we....we know that this
will be student housing, should we consider a change to the unit occupancy? Um, I know
Catlett allows four, you know, it's a different structure in that it's, uh, you know, shared
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eating facilities but some of the rooms in Catlett are four bed....you know, have four beds
in 'em. Uh, so....so looking at the occupancy, which I think our current standards were
driven by the idea that I think has kind of informed much of our student housing over the
years and that is we don't wanna over-concentrate residents in a particular unit, but this is
a different....a different concept here with....with the resident's hall. Urn, another thing I
would....I would want us to consider would be waiving or....uh....you know, saying that
the parking requirement would be a maximum of half....I think it's a half, quarter of
a....quarter of a stall per unit, urn, that we could waive the minimum, and ....reduce the
project costs, and the building height, by, you know, the....the need to store cars on site.
Urn.....which speaks to me about the issue that we've sort of been....it's peripheral to
this and that is addressing our other transportation issues that I think have not moved
as...as, um....as....as aggressively as our development plans, and that is how do we
improve transportation in the Riverfront Crossings District so that it isn't so auto-
oriented. You know, if we improve our transit service.....we're improving our bike
network, um.....our need, if we're looking at this as a 30 to 50-year building, I think we
can rest assured that the....the concepts that drive our transportation system are gonna be
very different than they are now. So I...I hate to see us spending, I don't know what the
unit cost is per parking stall. Something like$25,000, $30,000 per stall, adding to the
building costs, adding to the building size, when, uh, I think especially since we're
dealing with students in this case, in a very, you know, very close to campus,uh, is that
really necessary?
Throgmorton/Wonder if you folks have something you wanna ask or say.
Taylor/I just wanted to mention in relation to Rockne talking about the construction jobs, and
with all due respect I see Bill Gerhard out in the audience with the Construction Trades,
urn, there's more to it than that though,just saying he's going to provide jobs. I would
hope that, uh, they would be good, strong union jobs, local contractors,uh,high-quality,
uh, work, uh, because we certainly don't want another Rise incident with, uh....uh,
problems with the workers getting paid, etc. Urn, so that....that factor really wouldn't
play that importantly into my decision on....on height bonuses. I do....really like a lot
about this project, especially that it's going to improve the Clinton and Court Street, uh,
landscape, uh, that's needed to be done for a long time and I think, uh, whatever the
design turns out to be, it'll be an improvement over what's there now. Uh, adding green
spaces,uh, and getting rid of the parking lot, there's a lot of concrete there now
and....and so that's....that's a very positive, uh, thing. Do wanna stress again about my
question as far as, uh, if....if the height bonuses are all at once or....or individual, uh,
because also it was stated that it's not a by-right standard that they would be, uh....uh,
guaranteed these bonuses, uh, so I....I would like to see something more of the very type
like John....John mentioned, with the taller on the corners and transitioning to four to six,
or eight, uh, other heights, kind of a blending of the heights is what I'd like to see.
Teague/ I guess for me,urn, I know people wanna live in Iowa City, um, and so when we're
talking about affordable housing, people, you know, aren't here, as many people as
would wanna be here. So....when we talk about vacancy rates, I do believe that vacancy
rates, urn, will drive the market to more of a...affordable housing. I'm not exactly sure
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how much, and so for me that's where I see, urn, vacancy rates are actually a positive
thing, and so, urn, I....I do understand, you know, for some landlords that will be a
challenge. I hear, um, the concern about the, you know, the taxes,urn, that people will
have to pay if they, you know, don't have, uh, occup...uh, apartments occupied or, um,
housin' occupied, so I do understand that hardship. Um, the one thing that I would like to
say is just,urn,when developers,um, come to Iowa City, I do believe that, urn, we wanna
make sure that they feel welcome, and that their projects do, um,bring value to our city
and what we're tryin' to do, and so for me, urn,this....you know, this project for me
really is about what Iowa City would like to see happen and a part of our,urn, our
ultimate goal. Iowa City is a place where people really, really do want to live, and I think
that this will, you know, if student housin', you know, open up some vacancies, urn,
within the community, um, bring some more people that's been wantin' to live in Iowa
City, urn, from other communities back, um, because Iowa City is the hub. This is, you
know, where people want to live and so, um, I....I can go on and on about some of the
positive things,urn, that even Jim and Susan and Rockne has agreed upon, as bein'
positive for this project, urn, and I think again this will, urn, if you're gonna, you know,
have students downtown in a...uh,this will open up a lot of, uh, student housin'. That's a
lot(laughs) a thousand is a lot and so, um, I...I think it's a opportunity that the City, uh,
should, uh, really consider, or the Councilors here. The other thing is when we're talking
about the form based code, urn, and I....and I appreciate, uh, John makin' mention that,
you know, it's,urn, and even Susan, uh, citing it is not a concrete, uh, type of, uh, code.
It does have some flexibility, and so, um, it was also, you know, in the original provisions
that it could go from eight to 15 and so that's encouragin' for me with this project bein',
urn, designated for this site. Urn, so....I'm.....I think it is a great opportunity that, uh, we
really should consider.
Cole/Bruce, do you support 15 in all corners?
Teague/I do.
Salih/Okay(both talking)
Throgmorton/What do...what do you mean at four corners? (several talking)
Cole/ ...yeah, four buildings. Yeah.
Throgmorton/You mean the height....not....not any variation(both talking) four 15-stories,
right? That...that's what you understood too, right? (several talking) Uh, Mn?
Salih/I think, yeah. Uh, I can just start talking and repeating everything that was just said about
(unable to understand) the City,but you know I really like to go direct to my point,
because you know, we can just say everything that they said is great and it bringin' a lot
of value,but my question will be really, my value will be about affordable housing
(unable to understand)the building. You know I really don't like the term affordable
housing. I really don't like affordable housing in high-rise building and,you know,
students, uh,but because I went and I toured the Rise, I found out the different between
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affordable room and none affordable room is just around 40 to $50 only, which is
nothing! That....you cannot call this affordable. That's why my question would be
direct to the developer. I'm gorma be like really clear. Are you willing to give fee in lieu
instead?
Throgmorton/I don't know that we can expect the developer to answer right at this moment.
Salih/I don't know, but that's gonna be my position. Okay, he doesn't have to answer. We're
not voting on this. It gonna come back. I'm gonna tell you my position. You pay fee in
lieu for this (unable to understand) 15 floor for all four. You don' t do it, I'm not there.
That's all!
Stewart/Can I make a few comments,just about overall conversation. Um,that, um, and I
appreciate all the different views. One of the things is, um, as you probably know,
increasing the housing supply generally is something that Student Government stands for,
urn, that if you're looking at the landlord/tenant dynamic, um, if we're gonna be
increasing the vacancy rate,that's gonna be helping a lot of tenants out there. Urn,
landlords are a few, but tenants, there's....there's a lot of tenants in this city, um, around
50% of the population, um, rents,um, give or take a margin of error. Um,but then I also
wanna make sure that we're talking about, urn, how is this actually going to serve the
people that are actually going to live there, um, that there's a lot of conversation, urn,
about building heights. Sure, that's good,but....and I think it's a valuable conversation
and I think, urn, ultimately we're in favor of increasing the, urn, building heights, but
about the,kind of what Susan mentioned, the security elements, the livability elements.
How is that going to entail, um, and I'm not exactly sure, uh, fully how the student
housing, uh, bonus height works, but making sure that, um,that's adequate or if there's
things that we can do or conditions that we can do, that ensure that security within that
building, because that's going to be, um, vital. Um, in addition I wanna mention the
affordable housing units that, urn,basically....the affordable housing units would be
accessible to students, to my understanding, that if you are a dependent, urn, 60% or
below the average median income of your family, then you qualify, and in the same way
you could qualify if you're independent. So that's just some context, at least with
affordable housing units. So I think if there's...if the affordable housing units are gonna
be in place, I think that would be beneficial for, um, students that are, urn, come from a
lower income background, um, if that's the case from my understanding, because it's
right there, um, and those are just some....uh,points and talking points, but....generally,
urn, yeah!
Salih/But keep in mind,that's only for 10 years, and at the Rise I asked the person how much is
a room for affordable and none affordable. For affordable was 800....780. No, for the
none affordable is like regular, 780, and for the other one is 740 or 42, something like
that. I'm not sure about the exact number, but I don't think that what we....we consider
affordable, because affordable is to the 80% and below of the area median income. If I
were the developer, I would go with 80. Why should I go with 30, or 50? You know, I
will go with 80, that's why it's not really affordable and I....I think if we get fee in lieu,
we can take that money and build somewhere else in Riverfront Crossing so we can have
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something like build another building which is gonna be, uh, affordable, and market price
together, where we can achieve something, uh, and I'm open for....to negotiate this if this
gonna happen really I will go for that. Otherwise I'm just laying my value here. You
guys do something for us, we do something for you and (unable to understand) that how
it work.
Mims/What I....what I would be interested, and Geoff, can you ask, or somebody....staff
answer, with the affordable housing requirements in Riverfront Crossings, they have to
have the 10%, but at what income level does.....
Salih/80% and below.
Fruin/It's 60%. Uh, the Rise was done before that policy. So the Rise was set at 80% (several
talking) These will be at 60%.
Mims/These would be at 60.
Fruin/ So there's a difference between the Rise and everything else that's happening with the
inclusionary zoning.
Mims/Okay. Thank you.
Froin/The Rise is also, sorry, the Rise is also, those units are affordable in perpetuity, not for 10
years.
Mims/Okay. Here....here's what I would suggest that we...we consider. It sounds to me like
with the right conditions we have four Councilors who would agree with the 15 stories,
which is what the developer wants.
Throgmorton/It sounds that way.
Mims/As I mentioned earlier, for me to actually approve that when it comes back, there are
certain things that I would want to see, and I guess I think it's important and I don't know
that we can do it tonight, but I think it's important that we lay all of that out as soon as
possible for the developers, so as they start moving forward they can be working with
staff and negotiating and figuring out if....if they can meet those requirements. So we
don't sit here and say, yeah, I'm supporting 15 and then they come back and we say, oh
wait a minute, you didn't do this so now I'm not gonna support that. I do not want to do
that to any developer. So I guess what I would suggest in the interest of time is...and I
don't know that....I just don't think we have time to do it tonight, that we...maybe at our
next meeting or somehow get....get to Geoff some of the interests that we have, urn, in
terms of....and I mentioned briefly I think security's a huge interest, a....a certain, um,
concern of mine when you talk about putting that many potential....potentially that many
young people, I know it may not all be students, in that kind of concentrated, dense living
situation, I think security's a major issue. Um, you know, I would throw out the idea of
24/7 security. Maybe that's not fair. Maybe that's not reasonable. I don't know, but I...I
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would like to be able to give those concerns and ideas to staff and have them start talking
with the developer and then maybe come back to us with ideas and recommendations of
what they think is fair requirements. To your point Mazahir with the affordable housing,
I'm interested in a couple of possibilities. I would be really interested in seeing some of
it on site,because there are students who will qualify for it,potentially negotiating that it
is longer than 10 years, all right, and then potentially some of that(mumbled) fee in lieu
of, where again we work....we either build or we work with somebody else, where we
can make it longer. But, I think....I don't think there's anything wrong with having at
least some of it on site, but I think that's....I think that's a negotiation of....of how many
and....and for how long potentially.
Cole/To....to your point too, Susan, this will also allow the developer an opportunity to sort of
respond and have the conversation with staff so that they can get the level of detail in
terms of what's feasible for them and what's not.
Mims/Right. So that's my suggestion (both talking)
Dilkes/Let me interject for a minute though. Don't duplicate what's already in the code. You're
talking about security. A....a, in order to get the student housing bonus height, you have
to have security. Okay? So there's a lot that's already in the code that I don't think you
can trump.
Mims/Okay.
Throgmorton/ So, you know, I think the 15 stories is a mistake,but I also see that there are four
people who support that.
Salih/But, Jim, I'm sorry. No, Susan said it too also. You know (unable to understand)the
develop gonna do. My point is clear. If it's not fee in lieu, I'm not gonna support this.
That's why I don't want the people just to go ahead and do something and after that, after
they do all the work and pay for it and just(unable to understand) say no. That's why I
lay out my value clearly and just do this I will support it.
Throgmorton/Yeah (both talking)
Mims/ So what you're saying is you won't support....you will not support it if, unless it is all fee
in lieu of'?
Salih/I don't....it is 10%, right?
Dilkes/(mumbled) can I just....can I just caution you at this point to express your values, which
I think you've done, and what you want to see, but the code requires that each proposal
be considered and that you have discretion, but based on the quality of the proposal. You
have not seen the proposal yet, so I think you've kind of said what's important to all of
you and I think that's fine, but now we need to wait till we see a proposal and....and
move on from there.
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Salih/You mean the proposal have to meet every requirement that we have from security and all
this kind of thing?
Dilkes/For student housing there's a list of requirements that the student housing proposal must
include.
Salih/Okay!
Teague/I do want to make a comment now. I'm....I'm new (laughs) to the Council and so,urn,
I....I did state that I will support this, which that's where I'm leanin' towards now,um,
strongly, I guess that's true to be....true to be said. Had I, uh, thought about the, uh,
question that Rockne asked, I probably wouldn't have answered, um, my position at this
time. Um, I probably could have been more generalized that I'm, you know, really likin'
this project,um,but I think for me to sit here and like give my vote, yes, for me
personally, um, I just,uh, say I'm sorry and I retract that.
Fruin/Might make a suggestion,um, and of course this would require the development team
to....to be okay with it, but um, I....I think I have a pretty good sense of where each of
you stand individually and then collectively. I think you have a lot of overlapping
priorities, uh, or goals, uh, for this project. Um....maybe we deviate from the typical
level 2 design process. It sounds like you probably do need one more work session,but
I...kind of to Eleanor's point, I think you need somethin' to react to, to really have an
informed discussion. So, uh, maybe with the development team's agreement, and I can
reach out to them after this if you're in agreement, we could come back to you with a....a
kind of draft proposal that they would put together, um, walk you though it. This would
be a work session. It would not be a formal item. Come back in a work session, explain
some general parameters, um....uh, on how, you know, we would apply bonus heights or,
uh, and....and just get your.....get your feedback. That way you're lookin' at somethin'
and it's not a abstract issue,uh, like....like we have right now.
Dilkes/I think it's fine let me just, to you, Bruce. It's fine to say you're willing to go to 15
depending on the quality of the proposal, because that's not saying anything more than
what the code already says.
Teague/Thank you.
Throgmorton/I think Geoff s made a good suggestion, but I want to be clear about my own
values on this. I clearly do not support the idea of going to 15 stories with every
building. I think it's a big mistake. I can explain why any time, not now cause we've
already come to a decision about that. But, uh, assuming that they're all 15, I think it's
absolutely crucial that the quality of housing for the students be very high. It has to be a
place where they can mature safely and thrive academically. That's absolutely crucial,
especially in that site. Secondly, Tate Arms, I think we have a, basically a moral
commitment to transfer density for Tate Arms. Thirdly, I agree with Maz in principle
about most of....about how I would prefer to see most of the affordable housing
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component be taken care of through payment in lieu of. We'll see what comes our way.
And....and last I think it's legitimate to have some bonus for, uh, vacating....or
designating the right-of-way, though we should be clear, they've all...the developers have
already agreed to do that as a condition of rezoning. And, I could tell you a lot more
about this. I think we're....we're givin' `em a huge subsidy by transferring dens....or
awarding bonuses for vacating or designating that right-of-way as City right-of-way.
Nonetheless,that's all I need to say really. Those are the...I think the four key points, for
me. Does anybody else want to address any of this?
Cole/ I agree with waiting for the proposal from Geoff.
Mims/I'm assuming with that, Geoff,that you're not suggesting that they're coming back
necessarily with full-blown schematics. It's more....I guess (both talking)
Fruin/I think they'll have, uh, it may not be a final version, but I think they're pretty close to
havin' a proposal that....
Mims/Okay.
Fruin/ ....is ready.
Mims/Okay. Great. Thank you!
Throgmorton/Anything else about this, folks? Danielle, amazing! You're still standing
(laughter) Last woman standing! Good deal!
Sitzman/If I had a FitBit it would be happy with me!
Throgmorton/All right,thanks for the very detailed discussion, Council Members. Let's move
on to the next item on our agenda, our work session agenda. It's to discuss the proposed
Taylor/Davis housing rehabilitation project. We had some discussion about this, I guess
last meeting? Geoff, I know you've, uh, got some thoughts together about what the
staff's thinking currently is given the prior discussions. Can you review that for us?
Discuss proposed Taylor/Davis housing rehabilitation project:
Fruin/Yeah, a....a couple things. Um, you should have in your late handout an email from
Rockne which includes an attachment that I believe was the Black Voices Project.
Cole/Yeah.
Fruin/I apologize to Rockne. It was an oversight on....on my part to not have that in the packet.
That was our intention and I....I missed that, uh, so what I thought I'd do is just give you
an update on where we're at with this program,remind you what the intentions are, what
the goals are for the program, and then I think Rockne or others can explain, uh,the
information that....that, uh, is in your late handouts. So to date, uh, the South District
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Home Investment Partnership, um, you have approved the funding allocation and that's
using federal Home dollars. Uh,those....Home is a federal affordable housing program.
City gets funding every year and we get,uh, to allocate that in a different way...in
different ways. Uh, this year it came up as it always does through the Housing, um, and
Community Development Commission, with a recommendation, uh, to have$100,000 for
this new program, a program that we have not done before. The intent of the program is
to purchase two rental duplexes on Taylor and Davis. Uh, Taylor or Davis. Urn, and
rehab each of the duplex units with a$25,000 home investment. So two duplexes, four
units, $25,000 per unit, $50,000 per duplex, if you wanna think about it like that. Urn,
our goal is to have the resulting mortgage payments, so these would be rental duplexes
that would be then turned into homeownership opportunities. Our goal would be to have
the resulting mortgage payment, including your taxes and insurance, equal to or less than
the fair market,uh, rent that is set by HUD. And that differs based on bedroom size. Uh,
why we're doing this, uh, again we're trying to increase homeownership opportunities at
affordable price points. Uh, there is currently an imbalance of rentals and affordable, uh,
I'm sorry. There's an imbalance between rentals and ownership in that neighborhood.
It's currently about 90% rental. We've also....this is one of the few areas of the city
where we've seen stagnant property values, uh, over recent years, and we also have a
higher volume of nuisance calls, uh, in this area. Now the Council may recall, a lot of
conversation a year and a half or so ago about the, when we were looking at the rental
cap, and at that point there was a lot of discussion about, uh, the balance and the
importance of balance of rental and ownership. In that case we landed on a 30%
ownership, or rental cap. So again we're talking about a 90%rental situation here,where
elsewhere we've...uh, we've indicated goals to, uh, have, uh, rentals no more than 30%.
Uh, that balance, and we're not, believe me, we're not suggesting with this program that
we're going to get to that 30%, uh, level, but the....the underlying message is that we
think that more homeownership opportunities in this area, uh, could pro....uh, provide for
a stabilizing, uh, force in the neighborhood. Uh, we want this to be a neighborhood-
centric program. Uh,we have no plans to offer the program beyond these four homes.
This is a one-time funding and I think the only way that we come back and...and we do
this again is if that....if that neighborhood, the residents there, say 'We want more, City.'
Um, if the neighborhoods aren't happy with how this turns out,there's....it's not gonna
continue. So we know that this has to be, uh, a program in which the neighborhood buys
into, and we know that we have work to do to get to that point, that we're not there yet,
but we're confident that we can get there. Uh, to date, uh, the only steps that we have
taken and....and, uh, in addition to securing the....the funding through your authorization
is to mail letters to property owners. So roughly two weeks ago, uh, we sent letters out
to, uh, the property owners of the types of units that we're looking to acquire and just
simply asking them `Would you be willing to have a conversation with us about selling
your property?' Uh, to date we've had about four property owners that have said `I'm
willing to talk.' And that's it. Uh, we have not followed up with them yet. We're gonna
give it some more time to see if other, uh, people who have received the letter want to
call and then once we know the universe of potential homes or duplexes that we can buy,
we will then...the next step will be to sit down with each of them, have detailed
conversations about....about their unit. Is it currently vacant? Do you have tenants in,
uh, that unit? Have those tenants expressed a desire to leave? Have they expressed a
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desire to, uh, continue to live there? Urn, would you mind if we talked to them about
homeownership opportunities within that unit, all those conversations then need to take
place, urn, but we have to start by knowing who's willing to sell cause if you're not
willing to sell, it's....it's really no point in....in, uh, engaging in that conversation. Uh,
after that you have to identify the pool of buyers. Okay? So we know....down the road
we're gonna know who the sellers are, now who are the potential buyers? Urn, we
certainly wanna reach out to any current tenants that have an interest in homeownership
opportunities, and....and we....we will do that. And then we also want to expand that
reach to the neighborhood, and our thought is right now that we would start with just the
same neighborhood that we sent the letter to, uh, looking at the properties, so the
Taylor/Davis area. Who else in that area is interested in homeownership opportunities?
We'll have to see what the numbers we get, but assuming we get good numbers
from....from that inquiry to the neighborhood,then we have to understand what their
capacity is to become homeowners and what barriers might exist,uh, for them to become,
uh, homeowners. Urn, we have had discussions already with a couple of local non-profits
about assisting us with that effort. So, uh, we're looking at credit counseling and repair,
uh, for those that might need it, urn, and we're also looking at downpayment assistance
programs for those that may need,uh, a little bit of a downpayment to help secure that
mortgage. There could be other issues that come up,urn, that are barriers to
homeownership and....and we plan to identify those once we know who's interested in
the neighborhood of exploring that. Uh, for those that do become, that are eligible and do
have that capacity, if we're able to remove any barriers that exist, we'll also, uh, think
about home maintenance education,uh, classes, similar to what Habitat offers,maybe
perhaps even working with Habitat on...on that, where you can learn the basics of
homeownership and....and, urn, maintenance requirements that you may not have
experienced as a renter before. We do plan, uh, related to the downpayment assistance,
uh,we do plan to apply to the Housing Trust Fund at their next, um, grant offering for
$20,000, and that would be for$5,000 downpayment for each of those four units. Um,
we think that would be a competitive grant application to the Trust Fund,but if it's not
funded we can certainly look at other options. We also have available to us, uh,the
voucher to ownership program, which we have some experience with here. Uh,but
for...for those, uh, current voucher holders that may be in the neighborhood,uh, there is a
way to transfer that,uh, to a homeownership,uh, financial assistance program. So
instead of the rental assistance, uh, there's a mechanism for us to approve a situation in
which that voucher then helps pay their mortgage for the first 15 years of...of....of the
mortgage term. We do have experience with that and that is a tool that we can use with
this program too.
Teague/What is that called, I'm sorry.
Froin/It's a voucher to ownership program. Uh, we've used it and Steve Rackis is here. He
would,could answer specifics on it, but it sounds like we've used it, uh, over 40 times,
uh,here and in the City we have about 16, I believe, active,uh,people that have those
ownership vouchers, that have converted them from rental to ownership. We are working
with local lending partners. We think it's important that we try to have, uh, a local
servicer of the mortgage, um....uh, tend to be more flexible with us on....on terms and
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just working with folks as opposed to, uh, lenders that may not be local. So not only
issuance of the mortgage but hopefully holding that mortgage locally, uh, over time.
There are federal dollars involved in this program and thus there are some more strings
that you might be used to say with the UniverCity program. There's, um,limits on how
much we can invest per unit. So anything over 25,000, uh, dollars, uh, depending on the
age of the unit may trigger a higher level of rehabilitation. Urn, it also impacts the way
which we can, uh, sell the property. So basically there's formulas that HUD uses to
determine, um, how much you can sell the property for if you're....if you're putting their,
uh, dollars into it. The individual buyers also have to meet HUD standards for....for their
debt to income ratio. So there's.....there's some, you know, barriers that we may not be
over to come....we may not be able to overcome, because HUD has those limits and
these are...these are federal dollars. Until we start meeting with individuals, we really
don't know, urn, how many of those barriers are out there that we can't overcome. Um,
you know, reading through the....the materials that were, um, submitted, I....I think that
staff is very much aligned with, uh,what the suggestions are. Uh, there was one thing
that jumped out at us that we would be very hesitant to explore further and that is a
situation which we do a short-term rental, kind of a rent-to-own thing. Uh, we really see
this as an immediate ownership opportunity. Uh, any type of rental arrangement where
you may rent for a few years with the hope of selling it to those tenants down the road, I
think you're gonna find that the Home dollars will no longer be eligible. So we'd have to
replace those with some general fund dollars probably. Um, and that also is going to, um,
be, um,you're up against the affordable housing location model, which doesn't allow the
City to subsidize, uh, for rental housing in this area. So there's a couple obstacles to any
type of rental to ownership. We really see this as immediate ownership opportunities and
hopefully we can tear down those, uh, those barriers that may exist that would be
preventing somebody from taking up those opportunities. So again, we want the
neighborhood to be 100% on board. Um...if we can't get 'em on board, you know, we...
we shouldn't even pursue this round frankly. Um, if we can't,uh, get folks excited about
it and....and bought in to what we're trying to do down there,then we should probably
redirect these$100,000 to other affordable housing, uh, projects, whether it's in that
neighborhood or....or in the community. Um, I think it's really important for the success
of this program that...that they're on board. Uh,there are check points for the Council.
So we can update you as frequently as you want on this, uh, project, as with anything, but
you also have to approve the purchase of the homes. Okay? So when we come back to
you and we're sayin' we wanna buy X property, um, you're gonna have the rights, the
ability,to look at us and say `Okay, where are you at with the neighborhood? Have you
engaged with non-profits about these classes? How far along are you?' And if you're
not comfortable, you....you don't have to approve the, uh, purchase of those homes.
Dilkes/Same with the sale.
Fruin/ Same with the sale,thank you. But again, if....if those two check points aren't enough,
we can come back to you, um, at any time. We would be happy, uh....uh, to another
point in the (mumbled) we'd be happy to, uh,have a representative of the neighborhood
on some type of advisory board that would work with staff through this process. We just
wanna be really clear that it wouldn't be appropriate to have somebody on the advisory
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board if their intention is to,uh, perhaps apply for a homeownership opportunity. So it
has to be clear that this....this individual or individuals would not want to, urn, apply for
homeownership opportunities, but if that helps us build a rapport with the neighborhood
and buy in, then we'd be happy to do that with this project.
Throgmorton/Any questions for Geoff?
Cole/I was gonna say maybe if I could jump in, Susan. Urn, Geoff brings up a lot of really good
points. This is a complicated issue involving City policy, urn, federal policy, urn, I don't
think we have any State rules at play here, but it's a complicated issue. So, urn, my
intention here today was to have a....a proposal that we received from the Black Voices
Project, get it to you with about two weeks of lead time, and have a substantive
discussion and get a little bit more into the details in terms of sort of which direction we
want to go, sort of answering two questions. What do we have the authority to do within
these constraints, urn, with HUD and our local policies, and two, once that's identified,
what direction do we give to staff in terns of the direction we want to go within those
parameters. Urn, unfortunately I.....I learned that we do have a very good screening
system in our email system. Urn, I sent it on October....I wanna say 1 8th, and there
were...I think there was a SPAM filter or something like that, so it was sent on October
18th, urn, it was not brought unfortunately to Kellie's attention until yesterday, urn, and
we just learned that yesterday. So normally when we have these discussions, I think in
fairness to all of you when we have policy changes, enough lead time is good and then
also for staff to be able to give the direction. So with that caveat in mind, urn, this may
....this may be something that if we don't come to consensus tonight, urn, we may need
to have a little bit extra, I don't think it'd be longer than this. I was not intending on
asking for another work session, um,but there are a lot of details here that I do think bear
mentioning, urn, and so if we're not able to get sort of the direction that we need tonight,
urn, my....my suggestion is at the end of this that we consider a short 20-minute time
block, now that we have the memo that we received from Black Voices Project, to work
out some of those additional details. So that said, urn, that being sort of the wind up here,
urn, Geoff mentioned a neighborhood-specific, urn, policy for the residents to improve
and meaningful enhance the residents' quality of life. And so I think what the Black
Voices Project were trying to do was co-create, collaborate in terms of the policy-making
aspect of this particular proposal, and they came up with I think some good things for us
to further explore. Urn, a lot of you know that one of my most favorite programs is the
UniverCity program. I've been pushin' now for two or three years to see of ways in
which we can improve, enhance, and make sure that we're also using a lot of those
principles to different levels of income levels. Urn, you've pointed out, Susan, I think
very good point, there are some original goals that they originally had, um, in terms of it
wasn't necessarily an affordable housing piece, but with any good program I think it
evolves, it grows, it changes based upon our community needs, and so what I think, as I
understand what the Black Voices Project is intending to do is take some of those
principles that we really love about the UniverCity program and see if we can adapt them
to some different income levels, in particular the residents here. Uh, the concern we had
here is not that we criticize staff's great policy work. I think it's a great proposal. I love
the direction of it and I love the intent. I think the only thing here is that...once the
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residents got wind of some of the policy, I think they raised up some legitimate questions
and....and one of the biggest questions is, is given that we do have, uh, the investment
numbers that we do in the UniverCity program, can we adopt that principle in terms of
the UniverCity program, the howner....the homeowner in effect gets a subsidy of
$60,000 for purposes of residents. I'm not necessarily saying 60,000 in this particular
case, but in talking with a lot of the advocates from the Black Voices Project, they have
real concerns about whether these residents could qualify for the homeownership
opportunity at the 80% of adjusted median income. A lot of them, it's our understanding,
would more likely be in the 30 to 35%range,um, a lot of the residents are in historically
underrepresented groups in terms of homeownership. So what I want to try to explore is
really, um,two I think really sort of common sense proposals, is that, one, Geoff, you've
talked about not.....making sure that we're not, urn, approaching, uh, or....or displacing
any current residents and that we'd only focus on empty units for opportunities for
purchase. What....what we wanna, sort of reshift the focus a little bit and actually
identify the residents in those units to make sure that they're the first ones that have that
opportunity for purposes of purchasing. But they would go through the credit counseling,
urn, and everything along those lines,but then they would have an opportunity to have
the, and we could explore the,uh, Section 8, uh, homeownership opportunities, but if all
those other opportunities were exhausted, that the City would have an opportunity for,
much in the way we do with the UniverCity program, for a subsidy up to numbers similar
to UniverCity program, if that's possible. I don't wanna through out exact numbers, but
in the 40,000 to $50,000 range that would be used as a, um, essentially a UniverCity, you
have to occupy it for a certain number of years and then if you don't, uh, essentially the
City's able to recoup that, um, so those are some of the things that I wanted to explore in
particular, and the third piece of it, we talked about getting more of a homeownership
focus. They also really wanna make sure....and I don't think they'd have a problem with,
making sure that these would be owner-occupied units,which I know has been a goal of
ours for a long time. So lot of detail, lot of complexities to throw out here, and
unfortunately to my fellow Councilors, you have not had an opportunity to really digest
this,um, you know, and I guess I can blame the SPAM filter on this one,um,but we do
have it now and so hopefully we can have the discussion, maybe not come to the final
decision, uh, tonight. Uh, if we do need to follow up, my hope is that the staff could give
us some additional feedback, and my other intention was that we'd also have more
opportunity once it'd be in the info packet for other affordable housing groups to weigh
in in terms of giving us that feedback, um, in terms of where we're goin'. So, uh, that's
sort of where I'd like to go in terms of the direction of this program.
Throgmorton/What do the rest of you think?
Mims/Well I had a quick question,just from Geoff's comments. The interest is in giving, as
part of this, is giving homeownership opportunities, if I'm understanding this right, to
people who live in the neighborhood. Is that correct?
Fruin/Correct.
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Mims/How....how do we do that legally? I mean with....can we....can we restrict the pool of
applicants to buy these units to people who currently reside(both talking)
Dilkes/We can restrict them by neighborhood. We can't restrict them by race, sex (both talking)
Mims/So we....so we can restrict by neighborhood, and so in order for somebody even to apply
for ownership they have to have a current resident, say within the South District?
Dilkes/That's always been the plan for this district...for this program.
Mims/Okay! I just didn't know if that was legal with federal dollars that you could make that
kind of geographical restriction. That's....
Throgmorton/Except if I understand Geoff correctly,he's being more targeted than the South
District(both talking)
Fruin/Yeah. I...I think...it started off as the South District, this huge area. Based on the
feedback that we've gotten as this program's been rolled out, it's been clear that that
neighborhood needed to be condensed.
Mims/ Okay.
Fruin/And so what we have to do is, you know, again if we can start on Taylor and Davis, if....if
we determine there's no buyers that are interested or...eligible, urn, whatever the case
may be, then we might have to broaden it out, or abandon the program and take those
dollars somewhere else.
Mims/Okay! I just wasn't aware that we could do that geographical restriction to who we would
allow to apply for ownership. Okay! Thank you.
Dilkes/I mean I've looked at it from a fair housing perspective. I don't...and I don't believe
there are any Home, CDBG rules that(mumbled) limit it.
Mims/Okay, thank you!
Throgmorton/Other reactions? Maz, did....do you wanna react in any way? I know this is a
important topic for you.
Salih/You mean what Geoff said?
Throgmorton/To what Geoff said and....
Salih/You know, I...I just can say, yeah, like Rockne,he's, uh, he brought like a lot of good
point but the best point ever for(unable to understand) he said that if the neighborhood,
the people who live in the neighborhood, are not (mumbled) we don't have to do it. And
now we know like most of them are part of the Black Voice Project and they lay out
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their, what they wanna see, and that the way that they will be import, if we follow what
they said. Not like what the staff, you know, because what the staff said is completely
different than what they said. There is some similarities somehow,but you know there is
many difference and I just like what he said. If not people are not(unable to understand)
they are,but this way.
Throgmorton/Geoff, did you have, uh, the Black Voices Project in hand when you....uh, you
and staff were talking about the revised proposal?
Fruin/Yeah, I think there's a couple things. One, no displacement of current residents.
Absolutely, I mean that's been our....we've said that goal, uh, up front, urn, and to
Rockne's point, if we can work with current tenants, great! So I think we're okay there.
Um, the second bullet, um, gets at selecting buyers by race. Can't do it. Okay? Can't
....can't do that. Uh, we can do it just as we talked—by neighborhood but not by race.
Increase communication and trust between neighborhood residents and City. Yes, you
know, how can we do that? Let's have an advisory team from the neighborhood work
with staff and as we....as we walk through the various phases of this project. Um, there
is a sample, uh....financial at the back of this, um, that, uh, suggests that the, in addition
to the $25,000 in renovation, there's a$45,000, um.....uh, City mortgage that would go
on a home. Um, that's not within our budget. If you want us to pursue somethin' like
that, then we have to go to the general fund and get those dollars, and it probably is going
to mean that the federal dollars are no longer eligible. So it's not just the 45 from the
general fund. You're probably lookin' at the 45 plus the 25, if that's what you want.
Salih/ What do you mean if...if we use, if we just turn this to the UniverCity program and do it
the same way that we doing it from the UniverCity, can....we cannot have the 25,000
from the Home fund, federal Home fund,to use it in this program?
Fruin/I don't think so. I'm going to look to Kirk here, um,to....to mix (unable to hear response
from audience) Okay.
Salih/ Okay, yeah!
Fruin/25 from Home and then 45 from, uh, the City general fund? (unable to hear response
from audience) (several talking)
Lehmann/Kirk Lehmann, Community Development Planner. It would depend on if you're
increasing the amount of rehabilitation that you're doing. So a lot of the additional
rehabilitation costs kicks in if you're increasing rehabil....rehabilitation dollars. If you're
increasing downpayment, (mumbled) wouldn't necessarily, uh, affect some of those
issues that we might run into otherwise.
Salih/ Sure! That....that's what exactly I meant! I meant since we been using the 60 or 50,000
from UniverCity program, we can use that portion for....for the 45 (mumbled) second
mortgage and the 25 from the Home, uh, fund, the federal Home fund, to rehab the
houses. Is that gonna be legal or not?
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Lehmann/Uh, I believe it would be, but it'd be something that we'd have to review at the staff
level, urn, how we structure that and where we're getting funds from and how we're
using those funds.
Salih/Sure!
Lehmann/So I can't give you a full answer, but I believe that it would be okay.
Salih/ Okay. That's what I wanna hear.
Teague/What I can.....oh, go right ahead.
Fruin/Well, I just wanna say,that's just direction we need from Council. If you wanna move
this program up to, um, a....45,000 general fund and 25,000 Home fund, at these
purchase prices that we're talkin' about, that's a significantly change in the program. We
need to know about that and we need to come to you with a financial plan to be able to do
that.
Throgmorton/Would that be roughly equivalent to what the UniverCity program is doing right
now?
Fruin/The UniverCity program invests all of its funds in rehab. Okay? So we have a cap of...of
60. We try to maintain that cap. Sometimes we come under, sometimes we come over,
but that's the goal. Urn, there is no downpayment program or second mortgage program
with the UniverCity(mumbled) program.
Cole/What I was sort of....it's a complicated issue. That's why I'm hoping that we can have a
little bit of a consensus, staff will dive deep into this, and then hopefully we can revisit in
about a month for a very short work session?
Salih/No,but, Rockne, like really we need to hear....1 really would like to hear from everyone,
so we can give the staff direction what to bring to us (both talking) next time.
Taylor/Well I think financially it sounds like a better deal to follow the UniverCity program,but
as Geoff mentioned, I think the really important aspect of this program was the home-
ownership, uh, and downpayment assistance, which isn't in the UniverCity program, and
I think we....that would absolutely need to be included (both talking)
Salih/But is the same, uh, it's the same, Pauline. We been giving 69 houses this money in a
way that they rehab the house and it was free money for them. Now is the same thing,
even though it's not givin' free money for them, because if that person sell the house this
money coming back to the City. The 45. Same thing, but in addition to the 25, is the
federal fund is there. We are not gonna look for it. It is there, 25,000 Home....Home
fund, the federal Home fund, to rehab the house. We just taking that 60,000, using it a
different way instead of like rehab with that money, we gonna do it like second silent
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mortgage, which is never gonna be (mumbled) 30 years it will be paid back, if the person
sold the,you know, the house,but it still, we are not doing more than what it should be.
Same money is going anyway. It will be either for rehab or fee for....for just like, you
know, the second mortgage. That money(unable to understand)
Mims/So this is being talked about as a silent second mortgage. What we're really saying is
they're not making any payment on it and the City will only get that money back when
the house is sold.
Salih/Yes. Because we are not getting....if we, the UniverCity 60,000 or 50,000 that we been
using it,we are not gonna get it back because even 13 years, if they didn't...if they sold
the house I guess, I don't know how many years.....five years, right? Five years, if they
sold the house,they have to pay a portion of it or if not, after five year they don't have to
pay it back, but if they sell it before five years, they have to pay it back. Here you can do
it 30 years. Not only like five year.
Mims/Well I guess I'm going to assume this money is going to be coming from our affordable
housing fund, cause this is for affordable housing.
Sahli/No,this is....this is the UniverCity program. We are....I'm proposing, Rockne, if I
understand you right, you are proposing it as a....
Cole/It doesn't have to come....I mean my point is if we have to find alternative sources
.....we're saying if we are limited, that could be something that we could co...have it
come from, but I think the point is if there's other funding sources, why wouldn't we tap
those sources?
Teague/I....I might just jump in. What I heard Geoff say is that, um.....tear down barriers that
exist, and I think we're...probably gettin' a little bit too much into the particulars of this
program. We just saw, you know, staff come up and say this is a possibility. So I don't
think that we need to, I mean, I think, Rockne, you made the point very clear about the
direction. I think, um, and I'm hearin' essentially we want this for the Taylor and Davis,
and we want it to be affordable, and I think that's where we give it to the staff and have
them come back and say this is....this is the proposal. Now I...I am afraid that along the
way we might need someone from Council to in....you know, and I don't know if you
said that you'll be givin' like updates before our....this is on the next work schedule, um,
or work session,but if we can have some participation from, you know, maybe an
interested Council Member, I wanna make sure that it's actually goin' in the direction
that we intended it to, so that there is some, um, communication. Then I think that we
can get to where we ultimately want to be, and some of those barriers will be discussed.
Staff will come up with suggestions. So I....I'm very encouraged by what staff has said
today and what, uh, what Geoff has said, and urn, yeah. So I'm very encouraged about
this program, that it will meet the needs and the purpose of what we want it to do.
Throgmorton/Geoff, what's on your mind there?
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Froin/Well a couple things. One I think the idea...the idea of the silent mortgage, we're
assuming what those....we're assuming we know the extent to the barriers by...by just
pluggin' in$45,000. Urn, we don't know what the extent of the....of the barriers are.
Urn, what I would say is until we know what units are available, what price they would
be, the type of rehab we need—we can't really build a true prof....profor....proforma to
where I can tell you what the rent levels may be. What I can tell you is just by eyeballin'
it,what we've looked at is that we think that we could purchase units and get the
mortgage payment, again including taxes and insurance, below the HUD fair market rent,
um, level. And then we think that we can supplement with, you know, existing tools, um,
to....to,uh, get folks there. We won't know that until we know how much the....the
....the duplexes are gonna cost and which ones are available, and then again, how much
rehab dollars, uh, you know, we put into that. All those things are gonna make a
difference on the ultimate proforma. That's why I'm sayin', oftentimes when we come
back to you with that purchase, we'll have a lot more clarity and we'll also have talked
to, um,potential buyers to to understand, again, what some of those barriers are and what
needs to be done. Maybe it's a second mortgage, maybe it's some other, uh....uh, type of
assistance that's needed.
Throgmorton/So my sense is that Geoff has laid out a pretty good strategy for responding to the
situation and taking into account the commentary we've gotten from, uh,prior
discussions and from the Black Voices Project and so on. The adjustments have been
good. I also agree with Maz, to a degree, to an extent. I think we should strive to have
approximate equivalents between the funding support provided by the UniverCity
program and the funding support provided in this particular instance. How to do it, I
don't know, and frankly I don't wanna try to be parsing that out, right now. I think we
should,urn, ask Geoff and staff to think about that, come back to us with specifics, and
then we'll have that in front of us. We can see if there's any decision we need to make
on the specifics.
Cole/I like that, Jim. So using the UniverCity as a principle and give to staff of the details.
Salih/Yes.
Froin/Okay, so you want us to come back to you to show you how we're going to do this by
investing $60,000 total? Any....
Salih/Plus 25,000 from the Home fund.
Fruin/ So 25 on top of 60?
Throgmorton/No, I don't understand that at all. I want it roughly equivalent, and if we're puttin'
60,000 into UniverCity program, a house(both talking)
Salih/ .....not 50 or 45, yeah. Okay. Same thing I guess we gonna end up (mumbled)
Throgmorton/Okay.
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Salih/Yeah, sound good to me.
Throgmorton/(several talking) further discussion?
Salih/No.
Teague/I do have a question. What....is there any value on (laughs) un....a Council, urn,
Member, you know, touchin' base with staff or are we gonna be gettin' some type of a
update?
Cole/The only problem with that is (several talking) direction cause we're only one Council
Member. (several talking)
Teague/Okay, sounds great. Thank you!
Clarification of agenda items:
Throgmorton/ Okay, we can move on to clarification of agenda items. And we have....we have
time to do this, okay. So, uh.....
Cole/I would like to briefly highlight, um, 10a from correspondence. That's the KCRG news
report about Martha Wichert and the, urn, issue that we've had with duplex, if I could
bring that up at this point, Jim.
Throgmorton/Yeah!
Cole/Okay. So first of all I want to thank Stan Laverman, urn, as you may recall I was in the...
at the point of,uh, possibly calling for a work session, uh,but before we decided to do
that, urn, Geoff agreed that it would be good for me to meet with Stan Laverman and so
we're able to sort of drill deep into some of the particulars of the, urn, duplex concerns
that we've had, and for the people out there in the audience to give you a little bit of a
background, urn, there's been concern about one of the homeowners, Martha Wichert,
she's been very public and....and open about her advocacy, and I think she raises a
number of very good points, urn, and in response to that constituent concern I thought
maybe we did need to, urn,have a work session on this particular issue, to see whether
we would need to. I talked to Stan and we had a really good discussion about the
principle, in particular relating to a permanent barrier between units for duplexes. That
was one of the primary concerns. Urn, talked with Stan, was really good discussion of
the history of some of our housing policy in Iowa City, in particular sort of the way in
which the post-World War II generation with the G.I.s in the 50s, urn, the city started sort
of changing the way they rented a lot of the inner core neighborhood units, and so you
had a situation where a lot of single-family homes all of a sudden found themselves cut
up into three units, four units, duplexes, and they were never really designed as such.
And so as part of our discussion with unrelated occupancy, and one of the things that
staff did is say, hey, why don't we clarify and strengthen some of our existing principles.
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There were some new rules, but some of it....particularly with the duplex, was really a
strengthening clarification of the long-standing principle, which was if you have a
duplex, you have to have a permanent barrier. Um, and in talking with Stan, I think the
key point is this, is that she would be able to do....identically to what she's doing now, if
it had a single-family permit. Issue is is she would not be able to have as much
occupancy, um, with the single-family, uh,permit. And so after looking at that and
talking with Stan and really understanding her concerns, which I think are legitimate. I
do think we need to stay pat, and I do not think we need to further develop this issue. Uh,
one of the things I was looking at was whether we could do a tightly crafted sort of mom-
n-pop exception, you know, for one or two units, um,but as Stan has pointed out in terms
of some of the properties that we've had difficulties with, sometimes mom-n-pop are,uh,
we have some of the same difficulties, and so I think strengthening and if we have rules,
we do have to make them generally applicable, and we have to be consistent. So, urn,
Martha, if you're listening, I'll follow up with a phone call. We'll talk about this in
greater detail, but I feel very comfortable with how we've handled it. Um, it is at core
making our neighborhoods livable, and having consistent rules throughout the
community, and it's hard to do that if you start crafting out exceptions. I think as we deal
with these new rental permits, maybe we'll have to look at some changes, but I think for
now, uh, I think we can stand pat. So I thank staff for that position,but I think certainly
if there are any other policy tweaks we need to make, I think we do remain open as a
Council to evaluate them, but in this particular case, I'm not supportive of that.
Throgmorton/Okie dokie. Other agenda items?
Salih/Um....
Throgmorton/I wanna mention one. Item 6m, which are the minutes of the Tele-
communications'.....September 24th meeting. When I read through those minutes I found
myself thinking 'They don't really know what we have been talking about in the past
with regard to broadband, etc.' Ashley, you're shaking your head like....
Monroe/Yeah, um, I just wanted to let you know that we did get an update....I just got an
update,um, shortly before the meeting started from Ty Coleman about their most recent
meeting. So they have some questions about, um, what is expected of them, uh, going
forward or the form that the Commission should take or what they should be covering.
So, um,we're gonna respond at a staff level to those questions and I can share that with
Council or, urn, so....so you'll be hearing more about, urn,their discussion and what
they're....what they're thinking before they give us a proposal.
Throgmorton/Okay, so I have a suggestion. Uh, one of our agen...uh, work session, pending
work session topics is to meet with the Telecommunications Commission and we've
chosen not to do that up to now cause they only had three members. They now have four.
Monroe/Yes.
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Throgmorton/ I suggest we meet with their four-member commission, uh, and provide them with
as much clarity and direction as we can. Is that agreeable with you folks?
Cole/Yeah.
Throgmorton/Okay, so uh....we could do that next meeting or the one after that or whatever is
convenient for them.
Monroe/Okay.
Fruin/What would you like in terms of staff prep for that?
Throgmorton/Uh
Cole/Jim, didn't this sort of come up....at some point I had evaluated the concept of municipal
broadband. I think it was either you or Susan brought up the point well before we look at
municipal broadband, why don't we really make sure we have a, sort of a....a good sense
of where we are now with municipal broa....our broadband service in general, before we
look at alternatives or those sorts of things, and I...that was a really good point that you
made, so I think as part of that, we wanted them to reach out to the Commission, and I
think they had reached out and said, hey, we should weigh in on this before you do the
policy change. So I...I would say sort of where we are now in terms of broadband
service, cause we do get a lot of complaints about it. It's a big issue. The question is is
anecdotal or does it reflect something at which the City could in some meaningful way,
um, improve and explore different options. So (both talking)
Throgmorton/ ....your recollection's consistent with mine (both talking) That's the way this
topic emerged, yeah. Uh....
Fruin/I think the....the, what's changed now is that there are no longer local franchises, and that
was the original purpose and the stated purpose in the code for the Telecommunications
Commission was to administer the local franchise. So they don't even have really a
direction byby code now. So even setting aside municipal broadband,kind of have to
figure out what role that you all would like them to play.
Cole/ (both talking) new task, right?
Throgmorton/Well Ithe question would be, urn....A, can we....what....what possible
directions could we provide in....in, uh, discussion with them? What could emerge in
terms of what their....what the priorities or topics, uh,purposes of that commission
should be. Or....disband the commission. I mean we don't wanna waste people's time,
so if there's no real purpose, we should disband the commission. Uh, we're not required
to have it. That's the way I understand it. Is that correct? It's not a state-mandated...
Dilkes/No, not at all.
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Throgmorton/Yeah. But....
Dilkes/I'm wondering if....if it would make some sense to have....to ask the Telecommun...the
members of the Telecommunications Commission to identify what aspects of this area,
telecommunications, publicly provided telecommunications they think....it would be
good to have citizen advice on or resident advice on or something to that effect before
you have that meeting.
Throgmorton/That....yeah, that sounds reasonable to me as well. I mean they should know
more about it than a person like me does anyhow. Yeah. (several talking)
Monroe/ So through, uh, yeah, based on the email with their own questions, you know, they're
looking at whether their questioning a formalized commission in some other capacity or
if they would go to an advisory board type status. There are questions about what...what
other advisory boards are in play in the community, one of them being the Climate
Action Commission that disbanded and has that status (mumbled) advisory committee.
Um, so that's one thing, but they asked, you know, has Council expressed any vision or..
or ideas. They....they are familiar with their topic and, urn,what I'm going to share
again with them is that they....they should provide some type of memo or proposal as to
what their, you know, the topics that they might cover in whatever capacity they would
suggest.
Dilkes/After I think staff educates them on the history of that commission and why their mission
as articulated in the ordinance doesn't exist any longer.
Monroe/Right.
Throgmorton/Okay, that sounds clear enough to me. So....we will proceed along those lines.
Other agenda items?
Salih/ I just wanna talk about the(unable to understand) lob, about the (unable to understand)
sidewalk. I just wanna ask and maybe the staff, uh, like....when we have like new
division and existing area, who really pay for the constructing the, you know, the
sidewalk and make....maintain it and keep it like clean, whatever?
Fruin/When we have a new subdivision?
Salih/Uh huh.
Fruin/New sub the developer would pay the cost of building a new sidewalk.
Salih/And....and here in this case....
Fruin/We have an in-fill program in which before that was a code requirement for developers to
build the sidewalks. Urn, so in those areas where there are no sidewalks, we do
periodically go in and retrofit those neighborhoods with sidewalks, and that's a City
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expense. That's a....that's an expense that all of us taxpayers pay. It's not an assessment
to that neighborhood or that property owner.
Salih/Uh huh.
Fruin/Oftentimes those are....not met, uh, with open arms, in....in some of the older
neighborhoods they prefer not to have sidewalks. So in the....in this particular case I
think we've tried to engage that neighborhood before and the neighborhood has not been,
as a whole, very receptive to, uh, sidewalks. Yeah.
Salih/Okay.
Throgmorton/I have a couple items. Item 8h, which has to do with,uh, amending prior contract
to provide engineering consultant services for the Idyllwild storm water drainage
diversion project. Uh, I don't have any objection to that, but....Geoff, I wonder if, uh,
you might be able to discuss that briefly, if I pull that item or if any one of us want to pull
that item from the formal....from the consent calendar, not...not to change it, but just so
that members of the public will know that there have been conversations with Idyllwild.
Fruin/Yeah, you just want an overview of the project?
Throgmorton/Yeah.
Fruin/ Specifically what's...what (both talking)
Throgmorton/I want the public to know we....we have been responding to concerns expressed
by Idyllwild neighbors and....and how this particular project fits into that.
Fruin/ Sure. Yeah, Ron or Jason can handle that.
Throgmorton/Okay. So I'll ask to have that pulled from the formal meeting.
Dilkes/(several talking) You don't need to pull it. Just on the consent calendar just ask(both
talking) explain about it.
Throgmorton/ ....yeah. Okay, there's that. Uh, Item 8a....I'm sorry, 8m,this is a resolution
authorizing Strand Associates to provide engineering consultant services for the Dodge
Street functional design. I understand that,have no objection whatsoever, but what I do
wonder is whether the draft contract calls for consideration of alternatives pertaining to
roadway width, lane width, design speed—all those things that we processed over and
over again. I didn't see it when I was reading the material so....Jason?
Havel/Yeah, Jason Havel, City Engineer. So the intent of this contract is to really be the first
look at the project, kind of look at what the existing condition is, what we want this to be
in the future, um, really the outcomes of this would be to give us a better cost estimate
and what a...a design might look like, and then in the future we would move forward with
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preliminary and final design. So I think at this point we're really just taking a first look
at it and certainly we would have as part of that discussion what we feel those lane widths
should be, uh, bike facilities, sidewalk widths, that kind of stuff, will all be part of this
process,but really it's just the first look to give us a better idea of what we would need
for funding and overall scope of the project. Urn, this one is especially important because
it would be a joint project with the DOT and what that split might look like,uh, for that
project.
Throgmorton/I...I guess for me and maybe other Council Members it's pretty important because
Dodge Street, as we all know, cuts through residential neighborhoods. And as a result
it's important to make sure that it functions not as a barrier, but as something....a
roadway upon which people drive not more than 25 miles an hour ideally and bicyclists
can use, and what else? Uh, few things like that, and we've talked about this a lot so....
Havel/Yeah, and I think that certainly will be part of the conversation.
Information Packet Discussion (October 18, October 25, November 1):
Throgmorton/All right, good. Thanks. Okay, we have enough time to get into the info packet,
unless there....anybody else have any other agenda questions? Okay, so, uh, question...
or anything about the info packets, October 18th? I didn't see anything in it(several
talking) Uh, we'll jump past it. October 25.
Salih/Yeah I have...1P4. Actually, no, no, from November 1n.
Throgmorton/ Okay.
Mims/ (several talking) IP....I thought IP6, um, something Geoff put in there, the difference in
the property rates when you exclude off-campus students. Um, it was very significant. I
think ours was,uh, about 13% difference. So cuts our property rate from 28% down to
15%.
Throgmorton/Right.
Mims/ So....which doesn't surprise me at all, and I think it's something that we ignore a lot of
the time, um, certainly there are some of those students, and....and I don't know how
they do the calculation, but so many of those students are actually dependent upon their
parents and their parents' incomes are sufficient enough then that those students do not
fall within that poverty rate, which is really what....what happens.
Taylor/Right, but I think, uh, that's a good point though, Susan, and I think as....as, uh, Gustave
pointed out earlier, uh, there are some of them that are considered the low income, and
even their parents' income is low, so I think that's important. I think a lot of times when
we're talking about affordable housing earlier, discussion of 12 Court Street, it came up
quite a bit as far as the students and....and needing also low income and I think, uh, we...
we oftentimes forget about them as....as needing, uh, affordable housing also.
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Salih/Uh, I'm gonna go back to what I said earlier. IP4, that Sunday transportation, transit. I,
uh, I just (unable to understand) City Manager we ask him to bring us this and I guess
everybody saw it, it's like, uh, with paratransit it will be like almost one million or
800,000. I'm....I'm really just think....if we can look at the 2019 physical budget and try
to....like start Sunday transportation, even if partial. We don't have to do like all route.
We can just go out and do it for like we know who the people who use it Sunday for
work. We know which busy route that, you know, maybe we can do it the same thing
like (unable to understand) route or even less. We just....I'm just really proposing that if
we can...that's something we can think about (unable to understand) 2019 physical years
and before the study.
Throgmorton/We could think about it. It's very expensive. It's very expensive in revenue per
passenger mile, because the ridership is so low on Sundays, and so you've got these
expensive buses, uh, covering routes that would not have many riders.
Salih/And from where you get your data because I think...I know a lot people who use Sunday
trans....certain, certain route. They use Sunday,they need it, like they go to Sunday, they
work on Sunday or that's the only day they go around.
Throgmorton/Yeah well staff would be more expert at this than I am but I think the facts and
experience shows that....that that pass....the revenue per passenger mile would be much
lower, therefore the cost per passenger mile would be much higher on Sundays. But I
don't know, we can consider it but exactly how I don't know, cause you're suggesting
some, you know, very limited use on....or uh Sunday service?
Salih/Yeah, I don't.....I mean really very limited use for like certain areas, be you know, that is
really needed and we talked about this last time,that's why the (unable to understand)
asking Geoff to bring this, and I just see(unable to understand)because I guess Bruce has
some interest and I think, I don't know if I'm mistaken, John also was asking the same
questions, and if we have it why don't we just start really thinking about limited services.
Teague/I think limited service is probably, um, it's (mumbled) like maybe fixed routes, limit it
to,uh, transporting people to work. I think that can kind of narrow the zone and give us
some area to focus on.
Salih/Uh huh. I agree.
Mims/ I think the challenge is the data, I mean....where the people live and where do they need
to get to work and what times and....that's gonna be part of what we do in that transit
survey. I'm not...I'm not....I'm just not sure how we can get that kind of....data in the
meantime to be effective.
Salih/We can do a survey in some neighborhood. That they use the Saturday's services.
Throgmorton/Geoff, what were you about to say?
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Fruin/The same thing Susan did, you know,just crafting that service in a short period of time's
gonna be tough. We, our staff position has been that this is part of the RFQ that's on the
street now. It's been issued, we're waitin' for responses from consultants. They're gonna
give us a comprehensive review of Sunday service and how....and what it looks like and
that's when I think we pull the trigger. Urn, it's not as simple as just puffin' a couple
buses out there. There's a lot of labor infrastructure that goes behind that. You've gotta
have mechanics on site. You gotta have supervisors. You gotta have bus drivers. Um,
so it....it takes a...quite a bit of undertaking to launch a new, uh, day of service like this.
I personally would rather do it with the....with the benefit of the comprehensive data that
we're going to get from the study. Urn, and....and the other thing is, if you start a
service, it's really hard to take it away or modify it and you might find that if you start a
service say in 12 months and then six months later you learn that the service would be
designed, you know, a different level of design to that service, the changes, you're gonna
have people that have now become dependent on that Sunday service that you're
gonna...it's just gonna be hard to...to move those routes along. So I continue to urge you
to wait until we get all of that and then we can look at the system holistically and look at,
you know, later shifts on weekdays, Sunday service, fares, transfers, low income
discounts—all those types of things more holistically.
Throgmorton/Yeah, I think that's what we oughta do. What do the rest of you think?
Cole/I agree at this point, and I think the thing is though in the meantime we do have the
transportation committee that's been meeting in some context, I think, as a private group.
They're not an official City group, but if there's any solutions or proposals that they have
that would also meet the ADA as a targeted interim measure, they could send those to us
and propose that to us, but at least....I'm not comfortable with it because I don't wanna
have a lot of empty buses on these routes and we may disagree about whether they are
gonna be empty or not, but I think certainly in the evenings we know that there's a lot of
empty buses, um, and we wanna make sure that the resources that we use are used in an
optimal way. But if there is an interim proposal that someone can come up with, that
would meet the ADA,because we also have to provide the paratransit, urn, we could
consider that. I mean I'm thinking off the top of my head, you know, someone says, hey,
could we partner with some of the taxi and Uber for some limited funding? I don't know.
(mumbled)beyond the scope of this discussion tonight,but sort of my thought.
Salih/ I understand that it will be like a lot of work for the staff and like a lot of like new things
gonna happen. Everything that Geoff just said,but sometime our people in this
community deserve it, because they are paying taxes, they are doing like....they deserve
it. They deserve to have that, and(unable to understand) so we can....we can just like
give them services, and I....I thinks everybody here say like just trying to say I, uh, from
my understanding now, the way you talk about it, that it could be limited people using it.
And I'm sure hundred percent, you guys don't have any actual data saying limited
people. I work with these folks who need it, and they always talk about it. I work with a
group that (unable to understand) community group, I work with Jermaine and
everybody, we talked about it many times, and I know the needs. I've been talkin' to the
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people. I've been talking to, uh, to the hotel association. They said they need workers,
but the workers all the time say they cannot come Sunday because there is no
transportation. And I'm still gonna say we need to try it. We need to do at least do like a
survey to find out the actual data and if we really find out, it is okay for staff to have
more work. That's okay. I don't think because of that we don't have to provide Sunday
transportation.
Throgmorton/We need to stop in about a minute. Does anybody else have anything you wanna
add?
Taylor/Kind of on the relation to the transit, I just thought it....IP2, uh,the article that Bruce
included, uh, about, uh, the bus transit systems that,uh, are offering free service for doing
squats, uh, and of course I don't think that would work for us cause we don't have the
ticket centers but we do have a lot of people who use the bus rack, or the bike racks on
the buses, and I thought maybe that would be something we could look at is offering
them, uh, free transit if....if they ride the bus to catch the...or ride their bike to catch the
bus and they would get....that's one thing we could also look at is offering them free...
free transit if they're riding the bike and putting their bike on the bike rack. Think that's
one good thing.
Teague/I would just say, cause I know we only have like 30 seconds, um, I think transportation
is worth lookin' at. Um, people out there do need the transportation. Uh, the
comprehensive, uh, you know, plan is gonna come back for transportation. There's
probably gonna be a year before we even see any action. So, uh, you know, when we're
talkin' about makin', urn, you know, advancin' people financially, um, a part of gettin' to
work is...is a....is a part of it, and also for businesses who need those workers, um, that's
a limitation. So....(several talking)
Throgmorton/I think we're gonna have to come back to this. It doesn't sound to me like we
have full resolution so....we're gonna adjourn the work session, come back after the
formal meeting, we'll pick up this particular topic.
(ADJOURN TO FORMAL MEETING)
(RECONVENE WORK SESSION)
Information Packet Discussion (October 18, October 25,November 1) (continued):
Throgmorton/We stopped as we were discussing Mazahir's, uh, suggestions with regard to IP #4
in the October 25'h information packet. My recollection,to kind of cut to the quick about
this, was that....the real question was whether we should a...await the staff's, and
consultant's, preparation of a, uh, transit,public transit route and schedule study
forthcoming or try to do something in the immediate future, sometime this fiscal year, uh,
with regard to providing some degree of public transit service on Sundays. I...I think, uh,
we need to wait for the transit study. If I knew that there was one....maybe one route that
clearly would help a significant number of people on Sundays get to and from work, I...
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I'd seriously think about that. Uh, I....and there may be such a route. I....I.m not aware
of it. So, I don't know what the rest of y'all think.
Mims/I agree, Jim. I think, you know, we've got the....we've got that in motion. I realize it's
taking longer than people would like, but....I think people have to understand that this is
not a simple process of, gee,just roll a bus out on the street. It's having maintenance
people available, it's having service people, uh, you know, customer service for call-ins if
there's problems, etc. If you set a fixed route out there, it immediately rings SEATS into
the conversation, uh, because of federal law. So it's....it's much more complicated than I
think most of us realize until you really start getting into the nitty gritty and so,um, I
think we need to....to wait for the other....the only other comment I would make is we...
we've talked a little bit and I've mentioned this before the idea of, urn.....of vans or some
other things. If....if people wanna work with that transportation committee and bring
back some other viable options to consider for.....and in cooperation I think with
employers. I think if employers are having the problem because of Sunday workers, then
let's get them onboard to....to partner with us in terms of, you know,van service or
something for their employees. I don't....I'm open to something like that, but I'm not
open to us trying to....in the middle of doing a....a major project here of getting actual
data, of trying to throw a bus out on the road or two or three and really have no idea what
the...where they're going to go or what kind of ridership we're going to have,because I
think the needs are so spread out across the city.
Cole/I would agree, and I....I think (mumbled) possible interim solution. I know that
transportation committee has been meeting for a long time. So, if there's a proposal that
staff gets the input on and we get it in a work packet,um, I would consider that.
Mims/ I would consider it a well (both talking)
Cole/ ...ADA piece of it. I'd consider that.
Thomas/Yeah, I would...I think yeah, if it's possible to go that route.
Salih/I think the transportation committee, they do surveys. They don't provide solutions. But I
think we can start by you guys just don't have the data and I just feel like you think there
is no need or(both talking)
Mims/No, I think you're misinterpreting that. I don't think anybody's saying there's no need.
We just don't know what the need is or where it is, and (both talking)
Salih/Then instead of say oh we wait, why don't we start like figuring out if there is need or not.
Like those committee, the transportation committee can give us the data of if they done
something for Sunday transportation and we can start from there. If we find out there is
one route or two route that really needed,we can just start providing that. Uh, if...if, you
know, the only thing that you guys (unable to understand) making sure as a....just the
Mayor mentioned, if there is really one route really needed, and if there is a great need,
the sooner is the better. I just think that.
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Mims/ If they can give us (both talking) good data, I'm willing to try and consider some interim
solution. I'm very cautious about an actual bus route because I, again, I don't think....
because we're not involved in the nitty gritty, I don't think we truly understand the
complexity and all the things that going...go into putting a bus out there on the road. If
there's ways that we can partner with employers through some interim route, interim
manner,potentially with vans or something like that, I am willing to consider that and try
and explore that to meet the needs. But we need data.
Salih/That...the complexity is going to be the 800,000 that he told us about it! That's what it
costs. Everything. (unable to understand)
Throgmorton/Okay, I think we've already heard four people have expressed a view about this.
Pauline.....and you have as well,Pauline, do you have a view?
Taylor/I was just going to say I like Susan's idea about the van,that I worked for the University
a number of years and of course we have people that commute from all over the place,
that come at all hours of day and night and they've got a very successful van system, uh,
employee van system, and you know, if we needed to get other employers to model after
that. I don't know, ACT or the motels or whoever has the number of employees that they
could get together and have some sort of a van service. That would be a start, it would be
something or even Susan had offered the idea a while back about, uh, vouchers for the
taxi cabs in the meantime, if we could, you know, even look at something like that, that
wouldn't be the $800,000 but it might be helpful to people that would need something in
the meantime.
Throgmorton/Bruce?
Teague/I respect everything that's been said. I....what I would say is as far as like, um, I think
everybody knows that there's a need, you know, that....um, in the perfect world if I was
to make a quick recommendation what I would suggest is, um, there be letter sent to
employers that is distributed, um, essentially to take a survey, to see who would really
need, um, busing services. My....the issue that I think that we face is that, um, the
comprehensive, you know,the plan that's gonna come back is gonna be a year from now.
Urn, and I think when it comes back, there's gonna be....where we are today on a lot of
levels and so....I don't know, 800,000 to me doesn't sound like....it sounds like a lot of
money, and where it comes from I think, um, when we're talkin' about, uh, givin' people
access to work and....and, uh, supplying employers with jobs, I think it's worth it,uh, for
our community. So, you know, I guess Johnson County Livable Community,
Transportation Committee,that's who, uh, that's the transp...the transportation committee
that meets not as a City committee but independent, um and so, you know, I think I heard
if someone, urn, you know pre....presented a proposal,um, maybe that's somethin' that,
um, that can be done through them.
Throgmorton/I think I clearly heard four people, uh, expressing preference about how to proceed
and I think, Maz, perhaps you, Bruce, and I'm not sure about you Pauline, don't fully
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agree with what...what the four people down here said. Does that sound fair, I mean
that's....that's what I heard. So....we operate on a majority rule here. So with regard to,
urn, I mean tell me if I'm wrong about this, cause I'm trying to be clear about four people
supporting this. I think what we're saying, Geoff, is that we want you to proceed with the
study. We'd....we don't want to spend, you know, $800,000 this fiscal year to provide
Sunday service,but we do want a careful look at...maybe one possible, some possible
ways of providing some....some kind of service on Sundays....for key....key numbers,
uh, key possible connections, and it could be funded partially, uh,with employer
assistance. There are ways to proceed. I don't know. (both talking)
Mims/ I would suggest this, Jim, since we do have that independent transportation committee, I
would let them come back to us with the data. I think....I think the staff has so many
things on their plate, with our whole strategic plan and everything else. I think that
committee has already started doing a lot of work, and I would say let them gather that
data and bring it back to us and see if there is some way of connecting with some
employers to do anything temporarily before we get the whole(both talking)
Throgmorton/John, would you agree with that?
Thomas/Yeah, I mean...again, I think the....the key is trying to understand what the need is and
then see where we go with that in terms of what our options might be.
Throgmorton/Rockne?
Cole/I'd agree with that.
Throgmorton/All right. Pauline? All right, so there are five who agree with that. Uh, Bruce,
does this sound reasonable to you?
Teague/ I respect everything you all have said (laughter)
Throgmorton/Okay! So we're clear about that, Geoff? Okay.
Froin/Yes.
Throgmorton/Thank you. All right, uh.....(both talking)
Mims/ I just wanted to bring up...yeah, IP (both talking) yeah, IP7 is the meeting schedule,
January through April. I just wanted to mention, um, the March 19th, which is the third
Tuesday, which is when we would normally meet, is spring break week. So I think we
(both talking) I think we may wanna consider.....adjusting that one.
Throgmorton/I probably won't be here and so it'd be good to revisit.
Salih/What you are saying?
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Throgmorton/Just one, uh (several talking) March 19°i, uh, that's during the University's spring
break, and some Members of the Council probably won't be here on that date, during that
week. So (both talking)
Mims/ Lots of people tend to....just community members even, tend to travel and stuff so (both
talking)
Throgmorton/Yeah, so we'll just have to, you know, choose another date. It's not a big problem
(several talking)
Taylor/On that,uh, same item, uh,just note that, uh, the date had said Tuesday the 16th, in
January for the budget session, and it was corrected I see in the November l'posting,uh,
because the 16th is actually Wednesday, uh, so.....
Throgmorton/So is it on the 16°'?
Taylor/So it's Wednesday the 16th, cause we have a Council meeting on (both talking)
Throgmorton/Okay, I wanna make sure (both talking) With regard to IP8, the KXIC schedule,
so it's great to see that it's filled out for the next seven months or whatever that is
(laughs)uh, but I look at it I see that John and City staff are both scheduled for three
visits with, uh....uh, with Jerry at KXIC and I'm only scheduled for one. I feel like I'm
not pullin' my own weight. So I'd like to find some way to kind of, well shift around
and....
Thomas/Three for me? Maybe one's already taken place. I would imagine.
Throgmorton/Shows your name three times (several talking) I just wanna make sure I'm pullin'
my own weight. So maybe you and I can talk about that.
Mims/Yeah, I gave up my last one to, uh, I think LaTasha DeLoach did it because it was a
conflict with the Human Rights Breakfast. I was supposed to do that one and so I
pawned that off. So....but that's...I still have a couple, one on there maybe.
Throgmorton/Okay. IP #9, aid to agencies, emerging agencies audit policy. I think staff needs
some guidance from this, from us on this.
Fruin/You just asked us to report back to you on what we would recommend for an audit policy.
If you recall the discussion was we're trying to fund, uh, new non-profits that may not
need or have the resources to conduct a full-blown audit. So this is kind of an interim
step that we can take, and uh, the memo outlines our reasons for landing there.
Throgmorton/Yeah, it...it calls for a very light hand in terms of, uh, audits for emergency, I'm
sorry, emerging agencies, right?
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Mims./Well and the idea that it matches United Way's policy I thought makes a lot of sense, so
people aren't having to do things different ways for different agencies giving them
money. So I thought it makes good sense(both talking)
Throgmorton/ ....looks pretty reasonable to me. Uh, but on that point I have a technical issue
(laughs)to raise. Uh, now that....when I'm trying to copy material from some of these
packet items, uh, sometimes I can do it just by, uh, selecting material and then I copy and
paste. Other times when I do that, it won't let me. I have to do the....snapshot tool, and
other times when I use the snapshot tool, nothing appears when I try to paste it. So I...I
don't understand technologically what's goin' on. And maybe somebody somewhere
sometime can look into that?
Fruehling/And you're just trying to copy from the....like a downloaded pdf?
Throgmorton/Yeah.
Cole/It's just not in a writable format I think.
Throgmorton/And it put....and it varies unexpectedly. That's the thing that catches me by
surprise and....maybe somebody could take a look at that. Anything else on the October
25th?
Salih/Yeah, I have IP....6. I guess from the memo that the City Manager attach,uh, when many
college student live off campus poverty rate goes up, which is just look at it. I wanna
highlight it that if you look at Iowa City on the back, this is would give you really, if we
excluded students, it will give you real low rate of poverty, which is...will give us like
some kind of(unable to understand) as a problem like affordable housing and all those
kinds of things. So....
Throgmorton/I don't fully follow you, Maz.
Salih/ (unable to understand)
Throgmorton/I know what you're referring to, but I'm not sure I follow you.
Salih/Right. I mean like it say like that when....when they live off campus, which is they gonna
live with people anywhere else, uh, if the students...if the poverty right now is this high,
we can just keep in mind that we count students (unable to understand) that what I just
wanna say as students don't stay here forever. They come and go.
Throgmorton/Yeah, so if students are counted, the poverty rate is something like(both talking)
28% and if they are not counted it's like (several talking)
Salih/Exactly.
Throgmorton/Right. (both talking) Anything else in that packet?
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Taylor/IPI 1, uh,the correspondence from....I'll murder that name Agnieszka Gaertner about
the, uh, Riverside Drive, Myrtle Avenue, the bridge, and I did see in the November 1st
packet, Jason, uh, did reply to her about that, but in follow up to that I was just wondering
with the pictures and driving by there all the time, is there something we could do to clear
that path, get that overgrown stuff so that....until, I mean it's gonna be almost a year
before we actually are able to get that, the tunnel under there, uh, and people are
continuing to walk there, and I think that is a really big safety concern, but if we could
just look into cleaning that growth up in the meantime, making it easier to path....walk
through there.
Fruin/We don't wanna encourage anybody to walk there (both talking)
Taylor/ ...yeah....
Fruin/I, you know if you wanted to do something, I would suggest we try to barricade it, so you
force 'em (both talking) If we're really inviting traffic there, one it's not ADA
accessible, and two it doesn't have any of the safety accommodations that we would
normally....so, I know that she was frustrated by our response to her but really that's the
whole reason we need to kind of build the tunnel is so we can do it correctly and...and
meet all the standards. Um, we really shouldn't be doing anything to encourage
pedestrians walkin' there. It's....it's not safe.
Taylor/They've been doin' it for many, many years so, yeah(laughs) Okay.
Stewart/This, urn, let me collect my thoughts for a second. Um, so, urn, this is....this kind of I
guess reminded me...or it kind of, it's part of a larger conversation with walkability, um,
for inner...intersection safety or, urn, in terms of sidewalks, and are they exactly paved,
um, all the way. It's a slightly different but, um, I know talking to students, urn, this has
been a....this is a concern like with a lot of...intersections, or like for example on north
Dubuque Street,there's, um, one of the sidewalks there's a mud that will slide down onto
the sidewalk the way it, um, it's kind of landscaped and that then a lot of people slip in
that area, or for example, or I meant south Dubuque Street, but then on north Dubuque
Street there's no really any intersection, for example, for students to or, urn, residents to
cross by. Urn, so you have one on Market Street and then one all the way down on
Church Street and there's a lot of housing over there they they try to get onto campus and
many individuals, uh, walk....will walk that intersection, urn,pretty dangerously. Um,
but it's kind of a comprehensive issue. So I was wondering if there's any way we can
look at this in a comprehensive way, whether it's, um, it relates to, urn, in the....
downtown, or in the near area, um, on that intersection safety and,um, sidewalks.
(mumbled) if that makes sense.
Fruin/What we could do is just set up a time to talk with you and get some...a better
understanding of the areas. We may have some of those planned. We do have,um,
several intersection improvements that are either under way or planned in the future to
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help address some of the higher risk situations that we know of as bein' at the top of the
list. So maybe we start with a meeting.
Stewart/Yep, that sounds good.
Throgmorton/Okay, anything else on the October 25th packet? All right, hearing nothing, uh,
November 1st
Cole/I'd like to bring up IP5, um,the Mayor put in a PowerPoint from RaQuishia Harrington
regarding youth services here in the City of Iowa City, and urn, you know, I feel like the
trip that Jim and I took to the south, sort of the trip that keeps on giving in terms of
policy, in terms of experience, and in terms of...it's always nice to see how other cities do
things. Um, I think one of the things that really jumped out at Jim and me, uh, during our
trip was the City of Birmingham's youth services division, urn, which really incorporated
youth employment, youth education, youth supervision, and so, um, obviously
Birmingham's a much bigger city than the City of Iowa City, uh, different resource base,
uh,but I think Jim and I were really captured by the policy innovation that the city had
sort of put together and hoping that in one way, shape, or form, we could hopefully learn
some lessons, uh, from that program. And so we had, after the trip, sort of had a
discussion, well, you know, gosh if we send some staff down to Birmingham and...and,
uh, or maybe should we invite some, uh folks from Birmingham up here, uh, to hopefully
have an exchange and, you know, that takes an invitation and an acceptance. Uh, so, uh,
the RaQuishia report I think was also very helpful in terms of this discussion because as
Geoff and staff should be doing is that anytime we have a proposal, it's always good to
look at all of the different programs that are already available,to make sure that we're
utilizing those programs, urn, but that said I still think we can learn somethin' and so, urn,
I think it might be a good idea for us to encourage an invitation to at least, um....uh, the
leader of the Youth First, uh,program in the City of Birmingham. I know that, urn,
Community Service Office, Henri Harper,has really been identified this as a key need
and he's also aware of a lot of the various youth programming available. So, uh, I think
that'd be good for us to at least to have that conversation. It may be that we decide that
we don't need to, uh, you know, adopt any new program, but I....I think that should be
something we really take a look at. So I don't know, Jim, if you wanted to have any
input on that or....or thoughts along those lines.
Throgmorton/Uh, well I do, yeah, uh....part of what we thought about after bein' down there
was that it would be good to have some...someone on our staff learn about the Youth
First activity, learn more about it. So that's pretty much what RaQuishia's done and
she's also related that to youth related activities sponsored by all sorts of organizations up
here. Part of what's not entirely clear for me in RaQuishia's work is whether there's...
whether there are clear recommendations at the end. You know, maybe she wasn't asked
to come up with clear recommendations, but I don't really see them at the end of the
PowerPoint. And I think it could be fruitful, and I would support Rockne in this, it could
be fruitful if we could do it, uh, to invite,uh, perhaps the Director of Youth First in
Birmingham to come up here and take a look at what we're doin', talk to various people,
uh, perhaps, uh, provide some advice based on their experience. I....I want...I do
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remember one thing in particular, Rockne, that, uh, really affected me and that was to see
the simulation, you remember the simulation of a conflict between, uh, a young couple,
they happen to be African American. It could be of any race, uh, having a conflict over
stuff, you know, how stuff just bubbles up in relationships, and it quickly became, urn...
right on the verge of being very violent. So it could have resulted in, you know, some
physical assault of one on the other and who knows somebody's in jail next thing you
know, but we saw.....the Youth First people were helping them to learn how to scale
back on those kinds of interpersonal conflicts, and they have all sorts of other stuff goin'
on down there that really affected us when we were talking with them, listening to what
they're doing, talkin' with police officers, talking with that director—I don't remember
his name, and so on. So if it's possible, I would support Rockne and say it would be
good to invite someone from Youth First up here, uh,to meet with us and other people
who are providing youth-related services. See what can come out of that.
Mims/One of the things I found interesting in looking at this and it's something I've talked
about before is, and I don't know how their Youth First program's run, but it....the
appearance is that it's, you know, they all have the same starting name, Youth First and
then it's whatever it is, it's arts, sports, whatever, and when you look at hours, and this is
one of the things that's kind of frustrated me for years, it's....it's a hodge-podge. You
know,we've got City Rec department, we've got the Dream Center, we've got G World,
we've got the Yes program, which I think is run by Sixth Judicial District. It's....I don't
know how anybody finds what they want. There's...and like I've mentioned before, I
looked on the Secretary of State web site one time and there's like 500 and something
non-profits registered in Johnson County. I don't know how many of`em are still active,
but.....to try to find some way to have this more.....more organized,more of a central
location, whether....for people to go to to find these resources, even if the....I'm not
saying the City needs to provide all the resources,but somehow to get some coordination
between the City and the non-profits and who....anybody who's providing these various
services so it's easier for people to find out what's being done and for people also to find
out maybe where the gaps are that they might be interested in doing something, or to help
coordinate between different organizations, cause you look at the list of things that are
being done in this community, and there's a lot. Some of them I wasn't aware of and
most of'em I think I was, but it's like....how does....how does the average parent, and
particularly somebody low income,busy with one or two jobs, not really connected with
stuff, how do they find any of this stuff? So....trying to help them,just I mean....find a
way to connect this, if we have, uh, I'm thinking to the meeting we went to, uh, South
District meeting, okay? So how do you kind of coordinate and pull together this
information and get it to the different neighborhood associations so they can put it in their
fliers or their, what's that NextDoorNeighbor app that people use,just....(several talking)
Yeah! So I...I'd be really open to having some discussion about how we could improve
that, and then I think once you can do that it's easier to see what the gaps are and trying
to figure out(both talking)
Thomas/Just compiling these organizations (both talking)
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Mims/To start with, yeah, and then....yeah, and then figure out....then it's easier to figure out
what are the real gaps and how can we either as a city,through Parks and Rec, or through
non-profits, how can we find some programs to fill some of those gaps? But, having....
also helping people find what's there.
Throgmorton/Yeah. Any further discussion about that? Uh, Geoff, maybe you and I could
follow up on that, but not tomorrow cause I won't be here tomorrow. Pauline will be
here tomorrow, so that's done. You're free (several talking and laughing) Okay, Item
#6, IP #6, this is a memorandum from Geoff and Tracy Hightshoe about 225 and 229 N.
Gilbert Street.
Mims/I would say yes on the request for information. Let's find out (both talking)
Throgmorton/Yeah, I....I'm inclined to agree too but....the basic question is should...should the
staff issue this request for information about the possible commercial uses of these two
properties, knowing that the buildings themselves will be protected by historic landmark
status and so on. So, that's the real question for us, should....are we okay with the idea
of sending out an RFI, I'd never heard of that before, but anyhow, RFI, uh, with regard to
possibly using these buildings as, uh, some kind of commercial space.
Mims/I think it makes sense. It doesn't commit us to anything. It's just getting information at
this point(several talking)
Thomas/...there's....there's already adaptive reuse in that area so I think (several talking)
Taylor/ ....commercial uses.
Throgmorton/Yeah, and it's zoned CB-5 as it is. So.....
Fruin/You can think of the RFI as just a very informal RFP but likely what would happen is we
did an RFI and you felt like, yeah,there's some good ideas here. Then we would do a
more formal RFP probably and get firm proposals from whichever groups that...and
proceed a little bit more formally after. This...this will, you know, this should only take
35, 40 days,just really raise your hand if your interested,provide us some basic
information about the framework that might work, and we'll go from there.
Cole/It's a great idea.
Throgmorton/Have you sort of, uh....run this past Historic Preservation people,maybe the
Commission or....
Fruin/Not beyond the staff. Um....knowing that it shouldn't, either way, we're gonna protect
the homes and that process is (both talking)
Throgmorton/ ....okay with that, yeah, but I don't know, it's just a matter(both talking)
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Fruin/We'll make sure they're aware and....yeah.
Throgmorton/Okay, uh, any objection to doin' that? Okay, so you can proceed. Uh, any other
items on that....in that packet?
Salih/Yes, IP4 uh,pending City Council work session topic. I just wanna talk about#3,
exploring expanding use of racial toolkit within City government or wherever. I, uh, I
just....I was like really reading what happen at the HCDC about the, you know, at Taylor
and Davis, in the beginning after that somebody suggest that they can use the equity
toolkit, the racial equity toolkit and when they used it, they really come with like very
awesome ideas and different idea from the one that they use before. I'm just like since
this is here I just wanna see or maybe I really would like to see the....the racial equity
toolkit being used for everything from now and on....you know, and just to make that
happen,uh, I just wanna ask City Manager or the staff like what do you want to do as a
staff to make that really happen, like using(mumbled)
Throgmorton/Geoff, cause it's on the pending work session list, I imagine you're thinking about
getting to that at some point(several talking)
Fruin/Well we are, I mean, Stefanie leads a....a group of departments, we did it with four or five
departments in the first year. We've got four or five new departments that are going
through it and...and I may be a little bit off here but we look at two existing policies and
one....and one new policy and we take you through this, urn, and then we've applied it on
kind of an ad hoc basis for other things that come up, urn, it's certainly is not part of
every decision we make. We don't put it on every Council agenda item that's corning
your way or commission, uh, the wheels would turn incredibly slow at City Hall if we did
that, um,we just don't have the....the time and the resources to do that for every decision
that....that comes your way, or even that we make administratively. Uh, so I think part of
what, you know, this is in the top half of this pending list, which is....these items really
need some Council direction before staff goes forward. We need to hear from you what
your expectations for us are in using that....that tool. Are there certain areas, are there
certain policies or programs that you want us to run it through? Otherwise we're gonna
continue to do it kind of department by department,um, on the issues that staff think
are....are most critical.
Cole/Mazahir, you brought this up in the context of possible work session topics. Should we
schedule a work session?
Salih/Yes.
Cole/Three months out?
Fruin/We have,just to kind of update you on our tentative schedule right now because this came
together after this, uh,packet was published. Uh, for your next meeting,uh, we plan to
come back to you with Emerald Ash Borer information, uh, which we're already about a
month behind. We previously told you we'd get that to ya in October. So, uh, Juli will
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be presenting on the Emerald Ash Borer and then December 4th we have the consultants
for the solar study coming in and, uh, so we're really into that second meeting in
December now, unless it's a shorter item, and you know January, most of you've
experienced the January budget. You're pretty much(both talking) all budget in January,
not that we can't have other topics, but it gets pretty busy.
Cole/That's why I was thinkin' like three or four months out. I don't know what people think.
Mims/Well I guess, you know, part of it too is if staff is already adding two or three
departments, or three or four departments a year and taking them through it, it seems to
me like they're....already trying to expand it throughout the City, in....in a manner I
assume Geoff and...and the rest of the staff feel is doable without slowing everything
down to the point of not getting things done. So, I guess....I guess I'm not sure, Geoff,
what you feel you need for direction from Council necessarily. I mean it sounds to me
like you're implementing it at a pace that you feel like is doable yet keeping things
moving, but.....getting more staff used to doing it.
Fruin/Yeah. The tool's really good, I mean it forces you to think, right? It forces you to spend
more time on it and ask questions that you otherwise would just skip through. So what
we're hoping is by going department by department and forcing them to go through this
form, which takes considerable time to....to go through and process, we're hopin' we're
kind of building a different mindset. So in the future, you know, the Finance
Department, Dermis gone now, they did the pilot last year. They're not necessarily in it
this year. They're not going through with that form, but what we're hoping is that their
experience with that leads them to pause internally, ask some questions, and that policies
that....that do come out of the Finance Department this year,there's at least been some...
some thought. So we try to keep the conversation alive within the walls here,hoping that
that just becomes the expectation without necessarily havin' to go through that formal
process. Um, but again, if there's particular areas you want us to focus on, let us know
and we can....we can absolutely do that, you know, for instance, aid to agencies or, you
know, a different program like, uh, like that that we offer, we can absolutely zero in on
somethin' like that.
Cole/But to Susan's point, I think even if we're already sort of making the progress, I think in
terms of deliberating in terms of where we're at now, I think would be very healthy, urn,
even if just in terms of daylighting it for the public, in terms of what we're doing to
making sure that with everything we can within our resource and budget constraints in
terms of racial justice and, um, racial equity. So....I....we should almost rename this
Kingsley's equity toolkit, urn, I....I felt like he felt like we were making,we were going
in the right direction, uh, before he left. So at least he didn't bring it up too much as a
concern, so that said I think its something we'll never be able to do enough and we
should always strive to do as best as we can. So my thought we should at least still have
it on the...the agenda. Um.....so we could have a work session.
Salih/I just think like if we really going to the right direction that means, you know, the sooner
to do it is the better, and you guys have it here. I, that's one of the thing that I really loved
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when I start seeing the strategic plan, you know, action plan that you guys have, and you
know,just....to slow things down, even....we, if we really want to make this city like for
every....working for everyone, and more inclusive, we need to use that. Even if we went
slow, and...and have it, uh, like the people, the staff using it, the sooner to start it is the
better so they can get it, and things will start after that because they being trained for this,
things will start moving forward like faster. I don't....I don't like really mean like a work
session or maybe, you know, the end of the year work session,but the sooner is the better
to really start thinking about this. Maybe after, right after the budget? Like on February
maybe or....whatever, when the budget will be done, I mean....
Throgmorton/Just, urn, I'm not sure I'm fully understanding you, but just to be clear, we have
been doing this for the past two years. We've been applying the racial equity toolkit.
Fruin/We report to you in info packets, uh, at least, you know, quarterly on the progress of
those. So we can, you know, we can, uh, I don't know when the next one comes back out
but we can make sure and call attention to it the next time it's in the info packet, and
maybe that's a good time to...to go through it.
Throgmorton/Yeah, that would be a good way to do it,uh, next time that comes out, which will
be fairly soon (both talking) and then we could....make suggestions about what to look at
next and how to improve it over time.
Fruin/We can make sure that that next update also includes a recap of the previous years, uh, so
you can get a sense of what we did last year too.
Throgmorton/Yeah.
Salih/But still I really....what do you recommend?
Throgmorton/Well Geoff was just tryin' to summarize.
Fruin/ Stefanie provides quarterly reports to the Council on our progress with the racial equity
toolkit. Um, I think the next one should be comin'....do you know, Simon?
Andrew/Yeah, they were revamping the look of it a little bit. It's the....the equity quarterly
report that she does, and a component of that is an update on the equity toolkit. There
are, urn, four departments going through it this current year. Right now they're working
on what those programs will be. It's the Housing Authority, Library, Parks and Rec, and
Fire, um, and Geoff s right, you know, previously we had several other departments go
through that and we can provide you an update on, um, how those projects went and
maybe long-term impacts on those departments.
Salih/But I understand from him we are not doing it in every like department or every section.
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Andrew/No, we started with, I think it was five or six last year, we have four undergoing it right
now, and each year we roll it out. As we become more experienced at it, as we become
better at it, urn, we are, uh, disseminating it throughout the organization.
Salih/That's what I really recommended to start using it for every single thing. That first thing
that I said and, uh,he was saying like (unable to understand) if we start doing it, and I
still gonna say we need really encourage the City to start doing this and I encourage the
Council to push for this. This is really importance and it...it working, you know, we been
seeing it and we would like our staff to be trained, and after that it will be common sense
for them. They don't have really....and the sooner is the better.
Andrew/Sure! And I can say, especially...Geoff brought up the Finance Department going
through it last year,that uh, this year as we've been going through policies or,um, even
budgeting that you can tell that it's really impacted the way discussions happen early on
within the department. For instance the utility donation program that's part of our budget
now,urn, came out of that program last year, out of the toolkit.
Fruin/And I guess I wanna be clear about when I say it's slowing things down. When I talk
about the toolkit, I'm talking about an actual form that we fill out, um, that....that takes
time to compile. It's not the same in my mind as, you know, stopping, pausing, asking a
question before we advance a program. But...it's a very comprehensive, uh, analysis that
takes place. Even the departments that we're rolling `em out in, you're talkin' they're
lookin' at two or three policies. These are departments that make dozens of decisions
every week,uh, much less forward stuff on to boards and commissions and Council. So
we kind of need to know that line that you set for those expectations. Are you talkin' the
day to day stuff, um, you know, how we're securing goods and how we're, um....uh,
directing employees out in our parks and on our streets? Are you talking only things that
are coming to City Council? That's...that's where we need our guidance cause again,
right now it's....department by department,uh, and then staff picking the programs out
that we think would benefit from it most.
Salih/Okay, that why I....we need like a work session sometime, so we can give you the
guidance.
Throgmorton/We can focus attention on it when we get the report from Stefanie, maybe in that
next report she can highlight the racial equity toolkit part of it so that we can really focus
attention on it.
Salih/Okay. Sound good. (both talking)the last one,just....
Throgmorton/Sure.
Salih/Yeah, the...the last one is IP10 (unable to understand) at Washington. My understand we
are the one who ask for this survey I guess as a Council and it's....(unable to understand)
and it's here. It just say like, uh, they have report for the....for the public and here there
is (unable to understand) features are added to this intersection(unable to understand)use
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the Court Street intersection to cross Scott Boulevard. And the last sentence say we are
communicating with the City Council regarding this issue and we will proceed under its
direction. I would like to know what you direction gonna be on this? Or are we really
going to do something?
Thomas/Well I had concerns about this item too. I mean it seemed, my recollection was that,
urn, this was something initiated I think by a member of the community, right?
Salih/Yes!
Thomas/To look at the, uh, intersection and the response was.....urn, not going to do anything,
urn, we encourage you to walk down Court Street. (laughs) I don't think there...my
sense is is, uh, no one's gonna do that, um, they're gonna continue to walk at
Washington. So I...I'd really....like....like staff to look at that intersection a little more
seriously in terms of what could be done to improve the safety, um, I mean there was
comment about well, if we brought a guard down there they may be at risk, and that
suggests to me, you know we've talked about this, um, Scott's a 35-mile-per-hour zone.
If we allow, as we typically do, five miles over that speed limit, that's 40-miles-per-hour.
We also know that if a pedestrian's hit at that speed they'll likely die. So,um.....I mean I
did a very preliminary look, I mean one....one example of what was done further down
Scott is the pedestrian island in the middle of the roadway,where the, um, near the park
there, which is a mid-block location, but I....and we also have a similar island on First
Avenue, um.....maybe, you know, that's a wide street. It's over 30-feet wide. It may be
possible to insert a pedestrian island there to at least allow a person to only have to worry
about traffic in one direction rather than two, in order to cross the, uh, the entire roadway.
Anyway, that was...it seems to me something beyond (both talking)
Fruin/You could go up and down Scott Boulevard and find that same intersection,uh, all over.
Even Lower West Branch is just west of there and it's the same uncontrolled (both
talking) so where do we, I mean at some point the scope of the project starts to grow to
the point(both talking)
Thomas/Well, it's a corridor problem, I agree (both talking)
Fruin/It is a corridor problem and it's replicated on a number of streets and that's I know
something you all have talked on and, you know, we're tryin' to chip away at ones as we
can. I think our....our message back on this one was focusing just on that school traffic.
Um, you know we're getting a hand full of students across Scott Boulevard to Lemme.
Urn, which is a elementary school,urn, next year it appears those students east of Scott
will not be districted to Lemme, uh, so we shouldn't have a....a Scott Boulevard school
crossing situation. So, uh, is this now a....is this now a top priority where...where this
intersections gonna get all of our focus? In our view it's not. In our view we have other,
urn, roadway issues and pedestrian safety issues that....that would be at a higher, urn, be
higher on the list, urn, and it's partly because we know that that crossing Scott
Boulevard's only got a few months left in it,unless there's drastic changes in how the
School District appears to be redistricting.
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Thomas/Well as I....as I, you know, we've talked about this before. There are a number of
arterials running through Iowa City, like Scott, uh, which....in essence become barriers
between neighborhoods and, urn, so it is a citywide issue. This seems to me to be one
example, uh....Gustave, you mentioned Dubuque. Dubuque is another, um, so that
they're all over Iowa City. Any time we have an arterial running through a
neighborhood, um,because of the distances between regulated intersections, meaning
signalized are all-way stops, urn, it can be challenging for pedestrians, especially
vulnerable, uh,residents—children, elderly, disabled—to cross the roadway.
Throgmorton/Okay, we're not gonna be able to solve (both talking) so the question is is are
there four people at this table who would like to instruct the staff to do something
different, from what the staff has recommended?
Salih/ (mumbled)
Throgmorton/I....I don't. I'm....I'm okay with what staff is recommending. The rest of you?
Cole/I am as well.
Mims/I'm okay.
Throgmorton/All right, so that's...at least four, one,two, three, four....okay! Anything else in
that information packet? Okay, the last item is Council updates on assigned boards,
commissions, and committees. Let's try to be brief on this. What I would like to suggest
is maybe somebody could talk about the MPO. I don't know. I saw a report out there,
John, but you know,has the MPO met in the last wee....month?
Thomas/I'm trying (several talking)
Throgmorton/Okay, so never mind. Uh, are there any....any major things anybody wants to say
about any of the committees, etc., that we're involved in?
Taylor/Just me real quick.
Throgmorton/Sure.
Taylor/Just about the InvestHealth group that I'm a part of, um, I...Jim mentioned I won't be
here tomorrow. I will be,uh, leaving for Atlanta, even though our,urn, our, uh, grant,
two-year grant had ended, they're reconvening the 50 cities for a conference in Atlanta,
uh, national experts and leaders are gonna talk about advancing health and equity,uh,
strategies for investments and hopefully get some innovative ideas,um, financing
projects. So....
Throgmorton/Okay. I hope it goes great. (both talking and laughing) Anything else? If not, I
think we're done with our work session. Yeah? Okay,work session's over.
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