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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2021-03-23 TranscriptionPage I Council Present: Bergus, Mims, Salih, Teague, Taylor, Thomas, Weiner Staff Present: Fruin, Monroe, Kilburg, Dilkes, Fruehling, Liston Others Present: Longenecker, Van Heukelom (UISG) Review of Recommendations from OIR Group, CPRB and Preliminary Plan (03) : Teague: We are ready to start our work session for Tuesday, March 23, 2021, and the item that we have on our agenda is just reviewing recommendations for the OIR Group, CPRB, and the police preliminary plan, which is a part of IP3. And I ... I wanted to just let us know that we have 88 items that we have to kind of talk about. I did appreciate staff going through and kind of col ... color coding some things for us, and so there, um, I'm going to call it teal and tan. So teal is what the staff went through and, um, would be recommending that we kind of get ... take some action now, and then the tan is more actionable items needed in the future. I think ... I think as we go through this, um, we're just gonna, um, I think we just have to be communicative with each other, just to let us know how ...you know, what our thoughts are, but I ... I ... I would caution us not to get too much in the weeds or to make, um, maybe some judgment calls. I think it's really to organize and to try to figure out how we can move forward in the future. So I'm going to turn it over to Geoff, um, our City Manager. Fruin: Thanks, Mayor. Um, so a ... again, I agree with, uh, what Mayor Teague just said. It's not realistic that we're going to be able to spend time debating, um, 88 different recommendations tonight, but there ... there does need to be, um, some organization to them, some prioritization, if you will. So staff did provide the sheets that are in your ...your packet. We color coded them. We ... we kind of provided some guidance to you, but, you know, to be clear, these are recommendations to you from... from outside groups, uh, with the exception of the preliminary plan. So you should look at those with a critical eye. You may disagree with how staff characterized them or, um, what our suggestions may be. That was done solely to try to ... to help you through this organizational process. What I would suggest for tonight is that we start with the Community Police Review Board recommendations, and then move to OAR ... OIR, sorry, and, um ... uh, you know, depending on how you're feeling, if you want to continue to go through the preliminary plan, we can do that. Otherwise, we can hold that for another session down the road, but I do believe that CPRB recommendations and OIR recommendations are ... are most critical at this time to get some ... get some feedback on, at least get us ... get us working in those. What I would suggest is that, you know, if it's very clear that Council wants a certain direction that ... that you make that ... you make that known. Otherwise, we can kind of categorize these as ... as staff, go ahead and initiate work on these items or, you know, place ... maybe place a topic or a group of topics on a. pending list that we can schedule for a future work session, where you can get a little bit more detailed in your discussion on these. If that sounds okay, then I think we can start with ... with CPRB and work through, um, those 13 recommendations first. Okay, and we do have, um ... uh, the spreadsheets available that Kellie can screen share, if you prefer. I This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of March 23, 2021. Page 2 don't know if you all have those in front of you or not, or if you prefer to see each other while you're interacting. But what's the ... is there ... is there some folks that would like to see those up on the screen as we work through them? Or do you all ... you all have those? Okay. So maybe I'll just read them, I can just read the recommendations. That way the ... the public can hear them too and, um, and then we can go from there. So recommendation number one is in instances of sustained misconduct complaint, the board should be given information about the corresponding discipline and be allowed to include the, uh, in the board report whether the board finds the discipline reasonable and fair. Our recommendation on this one is that you, um, pursue some legal, uh, review before making comments on that, um, and you can choose to ask the City Attorney's office to do that or...or if you prefer, you know, some other mechanism to getting legal opinion. You can, uh, certainly go that route too. Mims: I would like to see us get the legal review on any of these where that's recommended, and I'm very comfortable with having the City Attorney's office do that. Taylor: Geoff, would the concerns be the confidentiality to those involved? Fruin: Yeah. Eleanor, do you want to talk about the nature of the legal review? Dilkes: No, it's not a question of confidentiality. At this stage there may be issues that are part of the legal review. But I mean just to remind you, I think you would ... you would hope that you would get some of that analysis from the the CPRB's independent counsel, and they chose not to provide that, and so we have to get the legal review sometime. I'm certainly willing to do that, or you would have to look at...at hiring outside counsel to do that. Fruin: So is there a consensus to get legal review from City Attorney's office on that before Council takes it up, and then once that legal review's done, we would schedule work session time? Teague: I...I wonder if it might be helpful if we actually had all the items posted as we're going through, instead of you reading each one. We may be able to kind of go through a few a little quicker. Some ... some are overlapping, uh, maybe not so much here but, um, in other areas they're overlapping. Fruin: Okay, yep. Kellie's got those on the screen now. So the first three, um, staff would recommend you get legal review before you take these topics up. The second one deals with the City Council holding a disciplinary hearing, uh, when there's a discrepancy between the, um, the board and either the police chief or city manager, and then third is that there be discipline if an officer chooses not to re ... uh, comply with a board investigation process. So again with those two we'd recommend legal analysis before you start your conversations on those. Bergus: And just to frame up what we're doing with the legal review, the intention is to figure out if we currently would have the authority even to implement that or if there are some changes to ... whether it's our ordinance or State law even that would be required in order to implement that. Is that ... is that correct? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of March 23, 2021. Page 3 Dilkes: That's correct. Bergus: Thank you. Fruin: Item number four, and if you don't have it in front of you, remember that the CPRB just didn't give you 13 recommendations without any background too. Um, you should have access to their full memo to you that has all the rationale. We simply didn't include that with ... with this one. Number four is a recommendation that the complainant should have the right to respond to the chief's findings before the board conducts the, you know, their ...their analysis, and we don't object to that. And as the board noted in their more detailed analysis, there's... there's a rationale then to allow the police chief to respond to any concerns that the complainant brings up as well, and we would ... we would think that that would ... would be fair in the process. Um, CPRB acknowledged that this is going to stretch out the complaint process, potentially, you know, by several weeks, and ... and I think that's clear when you... when you offer this, but ... but staff does not object to it. Uh, so ... and there's no legal review needed in this situation. So if...if you know that this is something you support now, then you can just direct us and we can put that on the list of things to do in terms of updating the CPRB ordinance. Otherwise we can schedule it for a work session if you want to have a more robust discussion on it. Teague: Yeah, I don't ... I don't see any issues here. Bergus: Yeah, I think this is reasonable (mumbled) would be good to include. Mims: Yes. Taylor: I agree (several responding) Fruin: So this will not move to work session. This will move to an ordinance amendment and you'll see that at a future formal meeting. Okay, uh, number five is another one in which we believe legal review is ... is needed. Uh, this is an online database of officer complaints, uh, so that the public could search a complaint history on a .... on a particular officer or analyze trends. Again, we'd suggest legal review as needed. Teague: I'm comfortable with legal review and just waiting to see what they say. Mims: Agreed. Taylor: Agree. Thomas: Agree. Fruin: Okay. Number six is that a copy of all complaints of misconduct shall be included in the police department's monthly disclosures to the CPRB. We currently disclose those on a quarterly This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of March 23, 2021. Page 4 basis, and we do not have a problem moving, uh, to ... to ... to monthly disclosures. So, um, if you're not familiar, obviously a person can ... can issue their complaint with the CPRB. But they're not required to. They can bring that complaint directly to the police department and our supervisory staff would investigate that. Sothis is basically just information sharing back and forth on internal complaints that we would get and ... and again, we don't have a problem sharing those on a monthly basis. With a couple of these, one things we ... one of the things we noted is that, you know, it's ... it's in my view probably a good thing to not only share where we're getting complaints, but we get a lot of compliments on our service too, and I think it's important that ... that that exchange happen as well. We can talk to the CPRB if...if that's of interest, but I think I personally think that would be a good idea. So with this one, no legal reviews needed, no ordinance changes needed. If you're comfortable with it, staff will go ahead and reach out to the CPRB and figure out the best way to report that to their comfort level. Weiner: It's fine. Mims: Yeah, I'm comfortable. I think the idea of including the compliments, along with the criticism, is just good for the public to have a little bit better idea of the broader scope of input that we get on our police department. Taylor: I agree. Teague: Great! Fruin: Okay. Number seven, um ... is just a request for additional information on our ...on the quarterly reports that we issued to the, uh, to the CPRB. They gave examples of number of detained individuals, demographics of the detained individuals, total number arrested, etc. Um, we're happy to provide whatever information we can that's not obviously protected by any kind of confidentiality, um, laws, and we think we can do this. We ... we probably need to have a discussion with the CPRB first, just to make sure that we're understanding exactly what they want here. And then we probably have some suggestions on other data that might be helpful to them, as well. So as you know, we've got into this with traffic stop discussions. Um, you know, instances where there's a warrant and basically the officer discretion is taken away, versus charges that ... that involved officer discretion. I think that's going to be important to distinguish here. So, again, no legal reviews needed, no ordinance changes needed. Assuming you're comfortable, we'll just proceed ahead and update our reporting mechanisms to the CPRB. Teague: I'm seeing majority shaking of heads, maybe. Yep. (several responding) Frain: Okay, the next one gets at the ability to hire an independent auditor every couple of years to review our internal investigations. We do this already through our accreditation process, and we don't object to another third party coming in and doing that. Um, that probably will require an ordinance change, um, and that's another one where we can skip right to an ordinance change or if you want to better understand what that audit looks like and ... and have a discussion on that, we can schedule it for a work session. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of March 23, 2021. Page 5 Teague: I think understanding what the current audit looks like would be helpful, potentially not only for Councilors but for the CPRB board, for them to understand that, and then I would say maybe take that to them and then if...if...if that's acceptable to them, um, then this item ... we won't have to discuss any further, but if it isn't then you can bring it back to Council. That would be my suggestion. Mims: The other suggestion that I would have is that it, um, may be a concrete every two years, no...no more frequently than every two years, unless, um, there is some... there's... there's a ... the wording at the end, `immediate procedural issue.' If there is some, um, specific issue that comes up that they're questioning a procedure that they, you know, could poten.... figure out a way that they would have the authority to do that, but I think if you just ... if we just kind of said like, okay, this would be in every other thing unless there's some ... major issue, and I don't know how you write that language, that would ... they wouldn't be allowed to do it more frequently. Taylor: I agree with Susan. Frain: Okay, I think we can work with that. Chief Liston's on this call too. So, Chief, jump in anytime on these if you ... if you think you can add something. We'd probably want to try to, if there's going to be a regular audit done by the CPRB, my guess is we'd probably want to stagger that with the accreditation process, because those are pretty labor intensive from our standpoint, just in terms of helping those auditors out, and I'm not sure we'd want to be doing two at one time, but those are some things we can talk to with the CPRB. Teague: And... and of course, Chief, jump right in there. I did have a, um, you know, looking at this internal investigation procedure, urn ... for an immediate procedural issue. So some, I mean I just wonder.... instances when the CPRB thought that would come up. It ... could this be when, you know, something wasn't sustained that they ...it was ... it wasn't sustained because the ... the chief cited different, you know, from what they concluded. So does anyone have any thoughts on ... examples of when this might come up? Frain: I think the examples cited in the CPRB report to you were -were ... were those that are done on a more (mumbled) say regular basis. They weren't, uh, at least to my recollection citing kind of procedural issues that would trigger it. It was more just, hey, every two years its good to have a third party come in and make sure that we're aboveboard when it comes to ... to processing those internal investigations, and again that's something we're used to and we welcome. Teague: Okay, and that's what I thought I understood it...it was more ... some of the more routine, and again, they may not be aware of what's already taken place. But ... yeah! Frain: Okay, we'll keep moving with number nine. They're requesting a budget to do more outreach. Uh, they also have some specific examples of things they'd like to do, including printing the CPRB information on officer cards and things of that nature. We ... we support this recommendation. We can amend the budget this current fiscal year if they have plans, This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of March 23, 2021. Page 6 otherwise we can amend it for fiscal year 22 and provide them some outreach funding. I think what we would probably do if you're supportive of this is go back to the CPR ... CPRB; and ask them to put together a ... a promotional budget or an outreach budget, and ... and then allow them to kind of figure out what it is they think would be effective, and then we'll consider their budget request at that time. Bergus: I was glad to see that streaming their meetings is included in this. I mean I'm a ... I think we should be streaming as many or all of the board and commission meetings as we can, in as many places as we can, so I hope that that can be prioritized as well. Frain: Yeah, I think that can be wrapped into the budget. We can ... we can give them some analysis on any kind of staff costs that may be needed and... and we can either factor that into our existing Communications budget or, uh, they can include it in their budget proposal. Teague: The only question I had with that is when we're, um, so protected information, and when you're live streaming a meeting... someone may say something that they probably, you know, isn't ... isn't allowable for the public. Weiner: There's large sections of the ... Mr. Mayor, there's large sections of the CPRB meetings that are an executive session. Whenever they're dealing with one of the, uh, a complaint or anything, that's something that, um ... that even if one of us are in a meeting, we have to leave. We ca ... and we can't hear it either. Teague: Okay, all right, so thanks for that. Frain: Okay. Number 10 is ... is a recommendation that the City provide complainants access to a lawyer and a social worker, a medical professional, to help them through that process. We would suggest some legal review be done on this, particularly, you know, in an instance where the City's hiring a lawyer that could end up in that suit being brought against the City or our employees. Probably need to think through that a little bit. We ... we don't have issue with access to social workers or medical professionals, and I think those arrangements could be made. Obviously there... there's some funding that's going to have to be provided to ... to support that effort. But if Council is ... is comfortable or would like to know more, we can kind of wrap that into the budget proposal, so this could be kind of a two-pronged approach... approach. We can do the legal review on the attorney side and then have them tell us what, you know, give us some more detail on what ... what they're thinking, and ... and propose cost on the ... on the social worker side. Getting some head nods there. Okay. Teague: I'm comfortable. Frain: All right, 11 is expanding membership of the CPRB from five to seven or nine, with an emphasis on minority representation and a law enforcement or a police policy expert. This would require an ordinance change and probably warrants some discussion. I think staff would have a hard time preparing that ordinance change without some more discussion from Council. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of March 23, 2021. Page 7 Mims: Yeah, I'm in agreement. Bergus: Yeah, I think that the premise and the tone is good and whatever additional discussion we need to have we should do it. Taylor: I agree also and I have no objection to increasing their membership numbers. Weiner: (garbled) Frain: All right, number 12 is, uh, deals with anonymous complaints or third -party complaints, um, when someone has personal knowledge of the incident. We understand, I think, what the ... what the CPR's looking at here, but also I think everybody needs to understand if we can't speak to the complainant and ... and understand that ... that it may be hard to fully investigate the situation. So I think that's a ... that's a complicating factor there. And, you know, each ... each situation is going to be a little bit different, but obviously, you know, in all these cases, we like to ... we like to talk to the complainant, we like to talk to witnesses, we like to talk to everybody to do a full investigation, and if you take that one piece out, um, it makes it more difficult. Not saying it's impossible, uh... uh, it's just a .... I don't know, an incomplete investigation at times, potentially. Bergus: Well it seems to me the supports that are suggested in number 10 kind of tie into this one as well, um, and that maybe we can see if there's a little more ... a better understanding we could come to as to how a complainant can be supported through the process, um, and if that might address the ... I think the concern that ... that gives rise to number 12. I think it warrants further discussion. Mims: Yeah, I think it warrants further discussion. I certainly share the City Manager's concern about the ... the potential inability to do a really complete investigation. Um, the (mumbled) in the last number of years of body cams does, I think, allow us potentially to get information, even without the victim, alleged victim, um, making that objection. So I would say it's worth further discussion at this point. Salih: I think we need to hear them or, you know, I really would like to hear exactly what they ...they meant by that. Just like more information about this. Frain: Yep, we can ... if we schedule this for a work session, we can provide the full report again to you that has some more analysis and I think that would help. Salih: Uh huh. Dilkes: I think ... I think actually (mumbled) even think of this, Geoff, when we were look ... looking through these, but I ... I think there's implications for the Peace Officers Bill of Rights too and how it defines complaints. So I'm going to need to look at that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of March 23, 2021. Page 8 Frain: Okay. Salih: Yes. Frain: Okay, so maybe we start with the legal review and then move it to a work session. FM110=7iMi! Frain: Okay. All right, the last one from the CPRB is extending the statute of limitations to file a complaint from the current 90 days to 180 days, and ... and we do not object to, um, that recommendation. Salih: (several talking) Taylor: I agree. Frain: Okay, uh, that probably ...I didn't make this clear, but that, um, Eleanor, I believe would be an ordinance change. So we can... Dilkes: Yep! Frain: We can lump that into the ordinance change. So you see we've got ... we've got kind of three tiers here. We have legal review. We have work session. We have ordinance change. The legal review may ...may take some time. Obviously, you know, you've got busy work session, so I'm going to suggest, uh... um, that we could move forward with kind of a first round of ordinance changes for the items that you are comfortable with ... and then, um, after legal review and after work session, maybe we do a second round of ordinance changes as needed, um, later in the year. Is that ... so expect kind of two changes to the CPRB ordinance and in ... potentially in ... in 21. Does that sound okay? Salih: Sound very good. Frain: Okay. Be comfortable moving to the OIR, uh, recommendations? All right, we have a lot more here. There's 39 recommendations here. As staff reviews these and again, these... these recommendations are to you, not to us; but as we review these, we think there's considerable overlap in a lot of these recommendations. So that's why you see here, um, oftentimes reference to ... to another recommendation there. Um, in these cases, uh, I don't believe there's any that ... that require legal review. This is more, um, going to be Council action or...or staff action, uh, types of discussions. Um, to remind you of the kind of the color coding we used here. All the CPRB's were green, which was we need some guidance now to get started, and you just provided that. With these we think there's a number of items that staff can initiate and bring to you, or that staff can just go ahead and accomplish and report back to you on over time. So you'll... you'll see fewer greens in here but, um, please know if there's anything that's not green that you want to discuss first, that that's your purview to do that and we're happy This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of March 23, 2021. Page 9 to ... we're happy to facilitate that. So the ... the first couple deal with mutual aid agreements with outside agencies. Um, and both local and Iowa State Patrol. We think in order ...in order to really update those ... those mutual aid agreements, we have to ... we have to kind of know where things stand with ... with a couple of our general orders, and that's our use of force and all hazards general orders. So those are the general orders that generally describe how we would respond to crowd control, uh, crowd control incidents for the topic that we're discussing, and what staff is suggesting is that we redraft those orders with some recommendations on changes. Uh, we provide those to Council, and as a reminder, those also always go to the ... all general order changes go to the CPRB too, but once we know kind of the rules of engagement for ...for our police department, then we can really go out and work on those mutual aids. I think it'd be premature to go out and .... and start working on mutual aid agreements when we don't exactly know, um, what final decisions you all may make on those ... on those general orders. So that's why we're saying we need your action, but not quite yet. We'd like to present you with some recommendations for changes and allow you to .... to make any changes yourself before engaging those law enforcement agencies. Mims: That makes sense. Fruin: Okay. Um, this item three is one of them that we would like some guidance on before we get started, and this speaks directly to pedestrian activity on the interstate. So the recommendation is that we need to evaluate, um, how do we respond to pedestrian activity on the interstate. Um, and this gets at mutual aid, but ... but also just our own ... our own staff too. And I think we need to think of this holistically because we ... we have situations in which you might have protesters trying to access the interstate, but we do also get instances where you might have individuals, um, that for one reason or another are trying to access the interstates. We just have to be careful and really think holistically about how we ...ow we draft these policies. Um ... um, but we're going to need some Council guidance on that. That's a tough discussion that I think you all are going to have to have. Um, but we need some guidance on ... on how you want your police department to respond when we do have people trying to access the interstate, and one of the tricky things here is we don't unilaterally have the ability to shut down the interstate. That's not ... not our jurisdiction. So we kind of have to keep that in mind. I don't expect you to have that discussion now. That's a ... that's a ... that's a tough detailed discussion that you need to have. But that's going to be important for us as we update our orders and start to speak to our law enforcement counterparts about changes to approaches. Bergus: Geoff, I know you mentioned that you didn't think a lot of these needed legal review, but I just wanted to ask other Councilors. I would find it helpful if we have some some pretty deep First Amendment analysis relating to protester activity. I mean, and maybe even just some superficial analysis relating to that, but I think from my experience over the summer, um, I think there was a pretty wide understanding that all or many of the activities that took place would have been protected under current law, and you know, I just think us having a really good handle on where that stands in the context of choices we would want to make for what we ... what we might allow that ... that we could craft more specifically would be helpful, but I don't know what other Councilors think about that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of March 23, 2021. Page 10 Mims: I think that's a good point, because I think, you know, there's... there's the First Amendment and the free speech, but that doesn't mean you can do anything, anywhere, anytime that you want. So for those of us that are not constitutional scholars, which I think includes all of us, would, I think, be really helpful to have that better delineated before we try and get into that discussion, because there are lines that people cross that they ...they say and think are free speech, but by preventing them from doing it you're really not preventing free speech. So I think we need a better understanding of those lines. Dilkes: Yeah, we have just ... we ... I'm sorry, Pauline (both talking) Taylor: ... okay, go ahead. I was going to say, and you can probably reflect on this, Eleanor, is I think it...it kind of would frame a lot of the discussion on a lot of these items, as far as the first amendment rights and how it relates to protesters. Dilkes: Yeah, it does. For instance, I think later on in this list is, you know, I mean...I think everybody would agree that force against a peaceful protester is not appropriate or, uh, the big question becomes `and how does one define that particularly when you have a group of people, as opposed to individuals,' etc. There's been ... we've already started to ... to dive into that stuff. There were some court decisions, um, when injunctions were sought against police departments around the country, uh, that... that we've been looking at, that I think can provide some guidance. So I think ... I think you're right. Weiner: I mean I think there's also at least one piece of legislation that's been working its way through the Iowa legislature. No idea at this point if the Governor is going to sign it, no idea how legal it is, but I think we need to wrap that in as well when we're looking at it. Taylor: And also, Eleanor, are there legalities as far as the State and the DOT and actually shutting down the interstate that would also, uh, this would also involve that? Dilkes: I think its pretty clear that the State has jurisdiction over the ... over the interstate. Thomas: How many times has the interstate actually been closed as a result of demonstrations or protest activity? Fruin: In my tenure, John, about 10 years with the City, we've had two, uh, and both referenced in the OIR report. We had the instance shortly after the 2016 presidential election, and we had last summer. Dilkes: I don't ... those are the only two I recall in 25 years. Thomas: (mumbled) you know, I ... just my thoughts on this as I was reading through them was that, you know, as a prelude to going out onto the interstate, you know, I would certainly hope, and it gets into some of the other recommendations, that there will be further negotiation among... among This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of March 23, 2021. Page 11 the community in terms of the value of...of, you know, heading toward the interstate. On the other hand, I mean as ... as the report noted, if it's a choice between using munitions on our ...members of our community and shutting down the interstate, I think, you know, we thus far we've landed on shutting down the interstate. Dilkes: Yeah, that's the easy question, John. (laughs, both talking) we can't shut it down. Thomas: Right but ... yeah, again I ... I would hope this situation could be avoided in the future. Would, you know, would be one of my responses, but, uh, yeah, anyway, those were some of my preliminary thoughts. Dilkes: Yeah, there clear... there clearly are techniques that, I mean, that can ... can be used to ... to help the situation. Salih: Yeah, we just, uh, I really agree with John, uh, but we really need to know those techniques, Eleanor (laughs) If we can have more information on those techniques, so we can come up with a decision about that. Fruin: Yeah, you know, a lot of it is ... it ... it's kind of what, you know, what we're prepared for. You know, in 2016 we didn't have extra staff and, you know, we didn't expect anything with ... with that ... with that protest. It was a gathering on the Pentacrest that ... that decided to head towards the interstate, and we just weren't equipped to even get in front of the group and try to make that ... make that stop. You know, with the the summer's protest after the ... after the first night on ... on June 31, uh, of access to the interstate. We obviously had ... had more people, and we were more prepared with ... with concrete barriers, uh, to ... to, you know, set on the roadway to create a physical barrier. So a lot of it's just going to be in the nature — is it spontaneous, is it planned, is it, you know, every situation is going to be quite a bit different, but we always have to anticipate that there's going to be another time in which it's spontaneous and we don't have the Public Works staff on call with... with.... with concrete barriers or we don't have enough police staff to ... to, um, effectively control, um, a crowd and prevent them from getting on the interstate like happened in ... in 2016. So that's the tricky part of all this is ... is that each ... each night, each day is going to be unique, each circumstance is going to be unique, and probably going to have a slightly different response because... because of that. Dilkes: Yeah, I mean, I ... you'll see when I give you the First Amendment analysis, there are no, I mean, it is a murky, messy, um ... decision making and ... and ... and it becomes even murkier and messier when you're trying to make decisions ahead of time ... without knowing all the facts, so (mumbled) just have to do our best. Fruin: Well we'll provide... we'll provide some legal review from ... from the City Attorney's office and then we'll jump into some discussions that you can ... you can inform us on ... on some policy drafting. If we're okay moving to number four, this is the one recommendation that ... that staff recommends dismissing. I believe that was the only one in this group. This is a recommendation that we dedicate additional resources to gathering information from social This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of March 23, 2021. Page 12 media about community sentiment and activism and protest activity. We have ... we have a lot of protest activity in Iowa City, and we support that. IA really don't think we need our ...our police staff, you know, dedicated to monitoring social media every time we have a group that wants to gather on the ped mall or the Pentacrest. I just don't think ... I'm not comfortable with that. I know our ...our police department wasn't comfortable with that. I£..if things take a ... a turn and there's, you know, there's property damage or there's other criminal activity or something like that, then we can dedicate resources to try and prevent and stop that, but just as a rule of thumb to ... to be engaged in trying to monitor that, while it could help with our preparations, we're just uncomfortable with that scenario. Bergus: Thank you for that. I'm grateful to see that one not included. Fruin: Okay. More proactive outreach to protest leadership, um, this will be addressed in our redrafted general orders. We'll ... we'll make that expectation clear in those general orders and there's several other recommendations that speak to this one too. Number six, uh, is ... is tied to that, and... and it's using crisis negotiation trained personnel to help in those negotiations and outreach to protest leadership, uh, prior to deployment of course. I think all our officers have a good baseline with their crisis intervention training, but our department is actively pursuing some specialty training on ... on protest communications, so that we can deploy those. I think given what happened across the country this summer, there's .... uh, this past summer, there's... there's going to be definitely an emphasis on this, um, and we'll pursue those training opportunities and try to have folks that are kind of specialized in... in this type of outreach. So no Council action needed there. The next one is, uh, gets at crowd control policies. Again, this is pretty much the same recommendation restated and we'll... we'll draft, uh, we'll address that with the ... with the general orders that the CPRB and you will eventually see. Eight, again same as ... same as before. This just gets at specialty training to ... to work directly with, uh, protest groups and, as I mentioned, we're pursuing that. Number nine is, uh, those physical barriers we talked about just a little bit ago, um, and obviously after June 3rd we were able to use those in most of the instances that ... that followed, where we had, uh, marches to the interstate. So we did have some positive experience with this ... with this effort and, you know, that's not the police department, you know, taking out those barriers. That's... that's our Public Works staff that we had on overtime in those days following June 3', uh, to help take those barriers around. Emergency Management at the County was very involved, uh, as well, and we're, you know, we're actively working to make sure that we can spin those types of operations up quickly if needed. Okay, 10 through 13, and if we want to go through them individually we ... we can, but what's left on this ... this page here is all items that we believe need to be addressed in our ...in our general orders, and again we'd suggest that staff present you with some recommendations and allow you and the CPRB to review those. We will, uh, also with 13, that ... that gets a little bit more at communication techniques. As you know, we'll have a public safety specialist in our Communications operation here shortly with the new budget that you authorized, and certainly that position will ... will be dedicated in part to investigating these techniques, as well, and then the police department is ... is actively procuring additional sound amplification systems so that warnings can be more clearly heard by larger groups of individuals, as recommended in this report. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of March 23, 2021. Page 13 Thomas: Yeah, I ... I would just add to that that after watching the video tape, it seemed that some sort of visual messaging might be considered as well, because there was so much ... just ambient noise that, you know, the ... any kind of audio... audio, uh, form of communication didn't ... it would be hard to imagine it working in and of itself effectively. But in any event, yeah, that clearly was a breakdown. It was ... it was obvious that no one heard the announcements. Teague: I do like that idea (both talking) Oh, go right ahead, please. Mims: (mumbled) sorry! No, I was going to say I like that idea, John, because I hadn't thought of something like that, but definitely when I listened to those, watched and listened to those body cam videos too. When you listen to people who gave the orders that were near them, it was very audible, but when you listen to the ones, um, near the frontline, it was not very audible at all. So that idea of a visual along with an audible warning could potentially be very beneficial. I don't ... I don't know what other areas do, but that'd be worth investigating. Salih: I really agree with John because also for me when I listen to (mumbled) I just still today, I believe that the protester never hear that they gonna be tear gassed. Uh, you know, because you can hear it in the middle of the crowd, police crowd, but nothing was in the front. So we need to really improve that. Teague: I think we are, and I agree with everything that's been said. I would say we also have to realize that, you know, the people beyond the front lines will not potentially be able to hear. And so... unless there is something that is going to be preplanned and set up throughout, which, you know, could be knocked over, whatever the case may be, but I ... I'd think the reality is is that the front line, um, just the first ... first few lines will be able to see, which will be great. Unless you can get it way up there, tall and high, um, and only the first few will be able to hear. Salih: Yes, we can be creative somehow. Fruin: And that's really what ... what this is asking for is just really ..try to be comprehensive in thought. We'll look at the visual. IA haven't seen anything like that, but I'm guessing that we're not the first one to ask if there's some good visual, um, cues that ... that can be adopted as well. Liston:(mumbled)Geoff. I haven't heard any of those or seen any of those either, but I think it is a pretty good idea. I'm sure there's something, whether it be something like what the DOT uses on the freeways or something like that. I think that's a ... that's a ... that's a great idea. Bergus: And it seems to me this doesn't necessarily have to be a police -specific piece of equipment, I mean if we're just talking about being able to get a message that can be seen and heard by a crowd, there, you know, it doesn't seem to me that that has to be a police piece of equipment, and we may have other uses in the, you know, Parks and Rec department or Communications for ...for something that can communicate to crowds anyway. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of March 23, 2021. Page 14 Taylor: Right, I was thinking it could even be as much as like a bandleader stand that they stand, you know, up ... they're up above the crowd and be heard better or seen better, uh, something of that nature. Fruin: Okay! Um, 14 is ... is territory we just ... we just covered there. Again, clarity and communication, real-time social media, etc. Um, we should review body camera footage after critical incidents, identify any remarks that are inconsistent with department expectations. This is ... this is standard operating procedure for us. I think here ... where the confusion is on this one is that that internal investigation wasn't done after June 3rd. That's when we opted for that third -party investigation. But ... but we don't ... we do this routinely, um, al ... already as part of our ...as part of our existing general order process. So no further action is needed on ... on that one for us. Number 16 is a call for us to go back and review individual use of forces, uh, from the June 3rd event, and the Police Chief has already initiated that process internally. So that ... this one is already, um, underway. Okay, 17 and 18 are the next two. Um, 17 gets at the miscommunication that occurred between the police department and ... and fire and ambulance on the night of June 3rd. There was a debriefing in the days and weeks following the June 3rd event, and staff feels very comfortable that those... that debriefing was successful and ... and that those issues have been satisfied, and we're certainly keen and aware of that situation, but we don't feel like there's anything else that's needed. That was ... that was already accomplished. Uh, 18 gets at uniform identification for officers and tactical gear, and we concur with this recommendation and ... and the Chief and, uh, captains are... are pursuing officer identification on those tactical uniforms. Mims: I'm really glad to see this. I think this past summer we saw some really disturbing video and heard a lot of disturbing stuff, I think particularly out of Portland, of people being picked up off the street, with people who nobody could identify what law enforcement agency they were with or if they were even with a law enforcement agency. And so regardless of how difficult or chaotic the situation, I think it is really important that members of the public can identify the law enforcement agencies and individual identification of those officers as well, so I'm glad to see this. Weiner: Yeah, I agree. The only places I've been where, you know, that (mumbled) Portland what we were seeing in Portland sort of reminded me of some countries I've served in where there's just ... there's no accountability and you can't, uh, and there's no way to figure out what happened to whom. I think this is a really important step. Fruin: Okay. Uh, 19 gets at disorderly conduct that takes place, and again, we think that this ... this will need to be addressed in the ... in the updated general order, uh, that we plan to bring back to ... to you and the CPRB. Um, parameters for use of force and deployment of munitions in the context of protest activity. Again, there's a lot of overlap here. This is what our general orders would get at. We do want to continue to reiterate that, you know, whatever procedures are adopted, are... are content mutual, right? I mean it doesn't matter what you're protesting, your rights are the same, and so we have to ... we have to keep that in mind, um, when the time comes to review these general orders. Uh, 21 and 22, we put in those same ... same categories too, um, This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of March 23, 2021. Page 15 actually 23 as well. We can go through them individually, but our ...our feeling is that the general orders will cover those and we'll get into those discussions. Um, a policy ...uh, 24 is a policy manual on its website with a searchable function. We already have all our general orders on the website, but they're... they're not searchable in the context that ... that OIR is ... is requiring, um, or is suggesting, um, you can download a PDF and if you have the right software, you can search within there, but we're going to look at some outside vendors that can assist with this. (mumbled) we currently don't have the capability to do this with our ...our current content management system on our website. So we've got a couple opportunities, either a third -party vendor that can provide this type of service or as we go through our website redesign, um, that's in an RFP stage right now. If there is a content management system that can accomplish this without a third -party system we'll go that route too. Teague: Um, do you know where we are in the process or what is the time frame for that website redesign? I know, Councilor Bergus, this is one of your (laughs) one of your pet peeves (laughs) Frain: Yeah, so we, um, as a reminder, the current website was designed in partnership with the University of Iowa. We kind of piggybacked onto their content management system. We have an RFP that's on the street right now. It's a request for proposals. So we basically said, `We're going to be redesigning our site. If you are a website designer that has municipal experience, submit your proposals to us.' Those proposals are probably due in April or May, I don't know the exact date, and then, you know, we'll ... our hope was to select one by the start of the fiscal year, which is when the budgeted funds are available to actually conduct the work. So that's a long process. Um, you know I'd like to think we can accomplish it next fiscal year. But ... but it's probably... we're probably 12 months out, if I had to guess. Teague: I think, at least for me, I'm comfortable knowing that we'll be having a website redesign, um, and ... and making sure we ask if that's something that they ...that they can do, um, within... within their process. If not, um, then, you know, having a ... another third -party... assist would be appropriate. Frain: Yeah, and I think what the Chief will ... will go through is this process of saying what other... what other value -adds can a third -party bring to it. If it's just a searchable function, then hopefully we can accomplish that through the content management system that we acquire, but ... but there maybe some other advantages to working with a third -party and that's something we'll just have to (both talking) over the next couple months. Teague: Sounds good! Frain: Okay, 25 is another general order update. This gets at the annual training curriculum and ... and actually crowd control training and being more diligent about how frequent we are with ... with that level of training. We certainly agree with that and will include that. Staff is already pursuing updates to the tactics manual, so we will update those accordingly. I don't believe there's any Council action needed there. And 27 gets at the same thing. It's ... its not just Iowa This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of March 23, 2021. Page 16 City PD training but is there metro or regional training on crowd control that can be pursued. And, of course, that makes a lot of sense too and... and we'll try to accomplish that. That speaks at...at 28 as well. Um, 29 gets at looking at case law and best practices related to protest activity, crowd, uh, crowd management, and we'll certainly do that. We can do that through our ...our network of other departments, but there's also some good independent literature out there from non -police agencies on ... on crowd control as well, and we'll consult all those sources when ... when looking at our ...our policies and procedures. Bergus: Just a question about this group that talks about best practices and ... and crowd control, I mean, what's... can... can you articulate sort of based on the direction of the Council that we've given so far, like how ...how do we know what best practices are, who's best practices are we adopting. Like I have some discomfort with the, you know, just a generic idea of best practices based on what we saw from departments across the country over the summer, u, that I'm sure there's some cities that thought what they were doing was ... was reasonable and, obviously, that would not be acceptable here. Fruin: Yeah, that's a .... that's a very fair point, and, you know, maybe the term `best practices' wasn't... wasn't the best choice. I think ... I think the intent, as we see the intent here, best practices was ... was certainly OIR's wording, but lessons learned, urn ... uh, new strategies, new adaptations, I think there's... there's already a lot of school of thought on ... on these, you know, based on last summer. So, um, we'll certainly look ... look out there to see if there was departments that had success, you know, um ... um, in other ways, but I think from ... from our standpoint, we're wide open, and ... and whether that's trying something completely new that's kind of authored after last summer ,I think we're open to that. The bottom line is we need to ... we need to kind of cast the net out there to see what the school of thought is post -2020 on ... on crowd control and make sure that we're doing everything we can to honor the Council's and ... and community's expectations. Liston: Many of the other agencies across the country are going through the same problem right now. Um, a lot of different agencies learned some hard lessons over the summer, including my former agency. So I think best practices are probably changing as we speak, so as Geoff said, I do think we need to cast a wide net and... and with your (mumbled) with your guidance as a Council ,decide what we think the best practices are. Dilkes: Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of that too. I mean I'll give you an example. Like one of the things we've looked at is a report by NYU School of Law called "Policing Protests to Protect Constitutional Rights and Public Safety." That was done in October of 2020, so there's... there's a fair amount of literature, I think, that we can look to that uses the 2020 BLM protests as a learning tool. Fruin: Okay. Moving on, we have the final set of recommendations or final page. You'll see a lot of white on this page, which is us again basically saying we don't think any Council action's needed, but by all means jump in and redirect if appropriate. Um, the ... 30 gets at the incident command structure, and you know, making sure that we have the training in place that's needed to ... to fully implement an ICS. Chief Liston's already initiated refresher training on incident This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of March 23, 2021. Page 17 command and will continue to do that. That'll be an ongoing emphasis in the department. That's also is (mumbled) I think 31 we believe is the same action there. Establishing generic crowd management plan templates... templates in advance of protest activity, um, may be helpful, was the OIR recommendation. Candidly, we ... we kind of doubt that this will help much because our experience is that every protest is ... is very unique in its own way, um, and there's some danger, I think, in relying on a template and not, you know, not kind of tying the hands of...of your ...of your department to respond to maybe some unique circumstances that they see, if they feel like they're tied to a template, but we understand I think at a more general level what they're trying to get at here and it's really preparation. So, you know, some templates...I think we can develop some very general templates, but we certainly want to maintain the ability for our ...our command staff to ... to use their discretion, um, during... during, uh, future events. So we'll ... we'll pursue this, but just want to let you know we're a little ... little lukewarm on that. We're not going to put a whole lot of stock in ... into ... into those templates. Weiner: I just want to raise the issue again (clears throat) of the ... of the State legislature, and again at least one of the laws that ... that I think is going to go to the Governor's desk, if it's not already, that we'll have to factor that in here, unfortunately. Frain: Yeah, the, uh, appreciate that. Uh, we'll have to ... thafll be an ongoing evaluation there. Um, 33 is the ... and 34 are both incident command. The, um, you know, command post location was criticized in the OIR report. And ... and we agree that, you know, there was ... there were some problems with that command post location, and there may be some other ...other unique, you know, other facilities. We did have ... I think normally in a case like this, you know, a facility like JECC could work really well for a command post location, but keep in mind that that was also the COVID command post site. So there were other, you know, as ... as I said before, there's always unique, complicating factors and... and in hindsight, maybe there was a better location. Uh, we'll—we'll give that some thought so that we have several different sites identified. Uh, 35 is the tactical channel for communication. Um, these capabilities already exist and no action's required there. You know, with 34 and 35 you can see in our ...our comments, um, at times we felt some of the recommendations from OIR were ... were really well suited for very large departments with lots of personnel. We are still a relatively small department, particularly when you have an activity that has hundreds of people on the street. Um, and so we don't always have the depth of supervisory personnel on ... on staff at any given time, uh, when it comes to making sure that you've got the right people out on the streets and the right people in command post. At times, you know, we're still a small department and we're going to struggle with that, but ... but we do understand what they're ... what they're saying here, and we'll certainly work to make sure the right people are in the right locations. Uh, 36 gets at tactical communications, and again, we ... we concur that one-on-one communications is ideal. Circumstances often dictate when that's possible and when it's not. 37 gets in that same kind of how are you communicating with officers on a tactical level. All that's being evaluated right now. We're exploring some alternative communication capabilities there as well. I think we made ... the best, you know, we may do with it ... with what we had and made the best of what we had, uh, last year. The, you know, the command number 38 is ... is, again, just who's involved in that command post or in that incident command system, and ... and OIR's points are well taken This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of March 23, 2021. Page 18 and... and frankly, we acted on those in the days following June 3`d. So it's really getting at who else needs to be at the table, uh, when you're managing events like that, uh, bringing in fire, bringing an ambulance, those ... those types of agencies as well, and that was done after June 3rd And then 39 is the communication specialist position. You have already authorized the budget. Um, we're going ... it's a new position and new positions require specific Council action to create as well. Uh, so in the ... in the coming month we'll probably bring you, you know, a request to authorize that position, which will allow us to go out and advertise and fill that position. So you don't need to do anything now, but you will eventually in a formal meeting have to vote on the creation of that position, even though you've dedicated the funds to it already. Bergus: Geoff, is that the position that is in your office? Fruin: Correct, so that'll be a public safety communications position that's housed in our centralized Communication office, which is part of the City Manager's office, and they will serve both Police and Fire. Teague: Well, thank you for that, Geoff. Any other questions for Geoff on ... on OIR? All right, so it's about five minutes till 6:00. I'm wondering how Council is feeling. Do we want to take a little break, like 5, 10 minutes and come back and continue with police... preliminary plan or what are ... what are thoughts? Salih: 15 minutes to 6:00, Mayor ...not five. Teague: It is (laughs) 15 minutes till 6:00! Thank you. (laughs) Thomas: (mumbled) wouldn't mind doing the... the... the draft on another work session, but, uh... and just leave it here for now, for me. There's only so much of this that I personally (laughs) can go through before I start... zoning out, I think, a little bit. Teague: I have to agree with John. I think that we went through a lot of intense (laughs) information pretty quickly. We know that it's very important to all of us, and certainly I don't want to, um, my physical body (laughs) to, you know, react to the information. I want ... I want to make sure that I'm at my best. So ... um, is there consensus that we can maybe create another work session to talk about the police restructuring? Taylor: I would go along with that, because I think it demands our full attention. Mims: Yeah, I think that's fine. I think given the number of -ones that the staff feels we don't need to act on, that they're either already doing things on or they combine, I think it'll be a fairly... fairly quick discussion, although certain items might take a lot more time, but I'm fine with putting it off to another meeting. Bergus: I'd just like to schedule that so we know when ... when that's happening and (both talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of March 23, 2021. Page 19 Teague: Yeah. Bergus: (both talking) lose track of it. Teague: Yeah, that's where my mind went, and I was trying to think about our work sessions coming up, um, if it could be in a regular work session. Um, I ... what ... what we'll do is we'll ... we'll meet tomorrow and maybe we can bring it back at our next work session, just to update the Council. Salih: But, Geoff, can you give us update about what... the... the public feedback on the restructuring of the police? Fruin: Yeah, so just as a reminder, um, after initially discussing the report in January or February of this year, Council asked for some more public feedback. I reached out to a couple of folks in the community that I think could help us, um, do a little deeper dive into ... into the community a little bit. So I've got ... I've got some folks that I believe will be willing to contract with us to do that work. The early feedback that I've gotten is that it would be really helpful to, um, or really beneficial to have some in-person meetings, uh, to ... to help with this feedback, and that if we're just relying on electronic means that it's not going to be as robust as maybe we want it to be. So I think we're optimistic that we could launch something, and you know, maybe May, June, July and... and allow for some more in-person meetings and then get you that feedback later in the summer. And, you know, that's a tricky thing with this, cause I don't want to presume that everybody's comfortable moving ahead. But I also don't want to lose time as well, especially when we're talking about alternative response models with expanding mobile crisis and, um, you know, 9-1-1 integration. Those tasks are going to take some time, and I really ...I want to ... I want to have those discussions with ... with community partners, with other governments, and so that's... that's kind of that balance I'm looking to get from Council. This ... this is a little bit different than the last two sets of recommendations that you went through, because you're going to have to give us some guidance on what ... what can you go ahead and do staff, and what do we really need to wait for more public input on, and ... and I want to respect ,you know, your ...your guidance on that. So I'll work with the Mayor and Mayor Pro Tem, and we'll try to get this scheduled at one of our regular work sessions coming up and we'll go ... we'll go from there. Bergus: I would just ask if other Councilors are willing to maybe frame up that conversation with a more general like big picture conversation or lead into it about like where we think we're headed and shared values and just kind of that ... sort of strategic planning element that we've touched on a couple of times in our work sessions, but for example, like the definition of policing and this conversation that we had in the budgeting process about, okay, so things like animal control and crossing guards are within policing. Is that really how we want it to be and what does that mean for the public when we're, you know, putting those under the umbrella of policing. If we can have that conversation, I think leading in to give staff guidance on some of those urgent questions, like Geoff was saying, to not lose time on something like 9-1-1 integration, I would find that really helpful. I think it'd be helpful for the public. I don't know what other people think. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of March 23, 2021. Page 20 Salih: I really think, yeah, there is some item we can talk about (mumbled) without hearing the public feedback, but I really think that we need to hear the public feedback before we can proceed in many, many items. So I just don't want to say, okay, staff, we comfortable about this stuff moving forward and after that the public will have different feedback. Yeah I understand, as it is certain things that even, you know, it's just like (mumbled) was talking about the animals, you know (mumbled) and all this kind of things. Yeah, there is certain stuff that we can talk about it. But I really don't want to like really, you know, hurry up and (mumbled) you know, talking about this. This is historical change and I thinks we are really doing something really good, and we are making history here, and I just want to see that we hear the public feedback, we put lot money in translation, we hire people, and we're doing that, just like take our time in certain stuff. We don't need to hurry up and do this. Yeah, that's really my insight. Teague: Any other comments? Thomas: Well, just in responding to Laura, I think, you know, what I've been trying to focus on, and I haven't looked at the draft as deeply as I need to look at it, but I'm, you know, there are certain ... with respect to some of the things we've just reviewed, there are certain things which seem to be kind of internal... internally oriented in terms of the organization, say of our police department and its relationships to other entities, things of that sort, where I'm, you know, not so concerned with hearing strongly from the community and the public, where ... where there actually is that interface with the... with the community and the public. It's ... it's those recommendations that I'm most concerned with, and you know, how, you know, if you were to ask ... I mean this... this... this thing came out, you know, it's sort of a very full blown set of resolutions, and I keep wanting to ask, you know, those of us who are really engaged in this. So ... so what is it that really concerns you in terms of your everyday relationship with our police force, and how can we improve that, and so that's how I really want to try to look at the draft, but also as has been mentioned, is there anything else there that we need to be considering that may not be in the draft? So that ... that's where I kind of am at the moment. But I'm glad we have two of these sets out of the way, so I can try to refocus back on the one that's left. Weiner: I hear what you're saying, John. I also don't think this is going to be a closed process. (both talking) and I think that we're going to look at whatever, you know, this set and anything else we bring into it and what the public comments on, and then other things are going to come up down the line that we're going to continue to want to examine. Taylor: I think it'll be (garbled) the new Chief (garbled) Chief Liston and ... and his impressions of these recommendations and his thoughts. Mims: Well, I think a couple of really important points have been brought up. I think, you know, John, you know, in terms of what we want and how we interact with the public, that I think for a lot of us it's not just how we interact with the public, but more importantly how do the people of color in this community, um, what are their interactions and their perceptions and ... and their views and feelings and thoughts in terms of interacting with the police department and law enforcement in general, and making sure that we're addressing those ... in all the things that we're This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of March 23, 2021. Page 21 looking at and talking about, uh, and Janice, as you're saying, this ... this is not a .... this is not a dead-end kind of thing. This is ... this is a revolving door. We're going to keep going over this, and if we do it right, it's something that we review continually. And, you know, as we get more public input, as circumstances change, we need to be, you know, reviewing this, you know, on an ongoing basis, and from your comments, Laura, about kind of that bigger picture and how we look at that. I guess I'm not entirely sure what ... that I understand where you're going with that, and we can have that conversation later, uh, as well, but I think, you know, as we look at our overall values, I think quite frankly that all seven of us are on the same page. Uh, the public may not believe that and the public may not agree with that, with a lot of the comments they make, but I truly believe that the seven of us want to have a police department, and I believe our staff does, that are ... we want to have a law enforcement department that respects the public, treats people with respect, does not discriminate based on race, color, creed, sexual orientation, etc., whatever other, you know, uh, qualifications or discriminations that you might have. And we want to make sure that happens, and so I think as we go through these things that we looked at today, in terms of whether it's additional training, outside auditing, etc., changes in general orders. I believe ... I know that's what's in my mind and what's in my heart, and I believe absolutely 100% that that is what is in the minds and hearts of our entire Council. I think a lot of people don't believe that, and I think the reason they don't believe that is because they don't necessarily agree with our approach. So I think we can have the same goal in the end. I think we can have different approaches along that process, and what I ... what I do find discouraging lately is the almost hateful speech that we are getting in our City Council meetings and in the TRC meetings, simply because people do not believe in the same approach. So they want to ... they want to ... they want to tell the people how we feel and how we think, simply because they do not agree with our approach, and I will push back on that today, and I will push back on that in every future meeting, and if necessarily... necessary, I will start pushing back on that in media posts ... that do not try to tell the public what we believe and what we feel, simply because you do not agree with our approach, and I think all of us need to keep reinforcing that, because I do truly believe that all seven of us have the same feeling about what we need to have out of our law enforcement and what we need to have out of all of our staff as they interact with the public, even though we don't necessarily all agree on the approach. I'll leave it there. Teague: Any other comments? No. Well, I have to say, uh, Councilor Mims, thank you for the word ... those words. I think ... and I'll leave it here, I think that what's being said is not... sometimes we didn't even... for the ... for the police preliminary plan to restructure the police, the only person that spoke about their position in December was John Thomas. And I believe everyone else said we're going to wait to have a discussion. But then people began to define our positions when we haven't even shared them, so I think to the public, again, I ... it is very ...it's very important that we really do work together. This is not against ... this is ... this should not be about Council against the public. This is our city. We can work together, we really can, and so I do urge all the individuals that come to the Council, please consider that we are not here to be against you. We are here to work for the people of Iowa City, very hard decisions. This keeps me up at night (laughs) It keeps a lot of us up at night, but we're going to get through it as a community and I again thank ... thank all of the Council, thanks the public ... thank the public for your input as well. It's very important (garbled) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of March 23, 2021. Page 22 Taylor: I would like to add to what Councilor Mims said, and thank those people, those members of the public who have been supportive of us and have sent, uh, spoken up or sent, uh, emails, positive emails, I would like to thank them. Teague: If there's nothing else for today, we will adjourn, and we will be back on ... oh wait, two weeks from now (laughs) Because we have a fifth week this month. So ... all right, we'll see you all, have a good night. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of March 23, 2021.