HomeMy WebLinkAbout2021-03-23 TranscriptionPage I
Council Present: Bergus, Mims, Salih, Teague, Taylor, Thomas, Weiner
Staff Present: Fruin, Monroe, Kilburg, Dilkes, Fruehling, Liston
Others Present: Longenecker, Van Heukelom (UISG)
Review of Recommendations from OIR Group, CPRB and Preliminary Plan (03) :
Teague: We are ready to start our work session for Tuesday, March 23, 2021, and the item that we have
on our agenda is just reviewing recommendations for the OIR Group, CPRB, and the police
preliminary plan, which is a part of IP3. And I ... I wanted to just let us know that we have 88
items that we have to kind of talk about. I did appreciate staff going through and kind of
col ... color coding some things for us, and so there, um, I'm going to call it teal and tan. So teal
is what the staff went through and, um, would be recommending that we kind of get ... take some
action now, and then the tan is more actionable items needed in the future. I think ... I think as
we go through this, um, we're just gonna, um, I think we just have to be communicative with
each other, just to let us know how ...you know, what our thoughts are, but I ... I ... I would caution
us not to get too much in the weeds or to make, um, maybe some judgment calls. I think it's
really to organize and to try to figure out how we can move forward in the future. So I'm going
to turn it over to Geoff, um, our City Manager.
Fruin: Thanks, Mayor. Um, so a ... again, I agree with, uh, what Mayor Teague just said. It's not
realistic that we're going to be able to spend time debating, um, 88 different recommendations
tonight, but there ... there does need to be, um, some organization to them, some prioritization, if
you will. So staff did provide the sheets that are in your ...your packet. We color coded them.
We ... we kind of provided some guidance to you, but, you know, to be clear, these are
recommendations to you from... from outside groups, uh, with the exception of the preliminary
plan. So you should look at those with a critical eye. You may disagree with how staff
characterized them or, um, what our suggestions may be. That was done solely to try to ... to help
you through this organizational process. What I would suggest for tonight is that we start with
the Community Police Review Board recommendations, and then move to OAR ... OIR, sorry,
and, um ... uh, you know, depending on how you're feeling, if you want to continue to go through
the preliminary plan, we can do that. Otherwise, we can hold that for another session down the
road, but I do believe that CPRB recommendations and OIR recommendations are ... are most
critical at this time to get some ... get some feedback on, at least get us ... get us working in those.
What I would suggest is that, you know, if it's very clear that Council wants a certain direction
that ... that you make that ... you make that known. Otherwise, we can kind of categorize these
as ... as staff, go ahead and initiate work on these items or, you know, place ... maybe place a topic
or a group of topics on a. pending list that we can schedule for a future work session, where you
can get a little bit more detailed in your discussion on these. If that sounds okay, then I think
we can start with ... with CPRB and work through, um, those 13 recommendations first. Okay,
and we do have, um ... uh, the spreadsheets available that Kellie can screen share, if you prefer. I
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don't know if you all have those in front of you or not, or if you prefer to see each other while
you're interacting. But what's the ... is there ... is there some folks that would like to see those up
on the screen as we work through them? Or do you all ... you all have those? Okay. So maybe
I'll just read them, I can just read the recommendations. That way the ... the public can hear them
too and, um, and then we can go from there. So recommendation number one is in instances of
sustained misconduct complaint, the board should be given information about the corresponding
discipline and be allowed to include the, uh, in the board report whether the board finds the
discipline reasonable and fair. Our recommendation on this one is that you, um, pursue some
legal, uh, review before making comments on that, um, and you can choose to ask the City
Attorney's office to do that or...or if you prefer, you know, some other mechanism to getting
legal opinion. You can, uh, certainly go that route too.
Mims: I would like to see us get the legal review on any of these where that's recommended, and I'm
very comfortable with having the City Attorney's office do that.
Taylor: Geoff, would the concerns be the confidentiality to those involved?
Fruin: Yeah. Eleanor, do you want to talk about the nature of the legal review?
Dilkes: No, it's not a question of confidentiality. At this stage there may be issues that are part of the
legal review. But I mean just to remind you, I think you would ... you would hope that you
would get some of that analysis from the the CPRB's independent counsel, and they chose not
to provide that, and so we have to get the legal review sometime. I'm certainly willing to do
that, or you would have to look at...at hiring outside counsel to do that.
Fruin: So is there a consensus to get legal review from City Attorney's office on that before Council
takes it up, and then once that legal review's done, we would schedule work session time?
Teague: I...I wonder if it might be helpful if we actually had all the items posted as we're going
through, instead of you reading each one. We may be able to kind of go through a few a little
quicker. Some ... some are overlapping, uh, maybe not so much here but, um, in other areas
they're overlapping.
Fruin: Okay, yep. Kellie's got those on the screen now. So the first three, um, staff would recommend
you get legal review before you take these topics up. The second one deals with the City
Council holding a disciplinary hearing, uh, when there's a discrepancy between the, um, the
board and either the police chief or city manager, and then third is that there be discipline if an
officer chooses not to re ... uh, comply with a board investigation process. So again with those
two we'd recommend legal analysis before you start your conversations on those.
Bergus: And just to frame up what we're doing with the legal review, the intention is to figure out if we
currently would have the authority even to implement that or if there are some changes
to ... whether it's our ordinance or State law even that would be required in order to implement
that. Is that ... is that correct?
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Dilkes: That's correct.
Bergus: Thank you.
Fruin: Item number four, and if you don't have it in front of you, remember that the CPRB just didn't
give you 13 recommendations without any background too. Um, you should have access to
their full memo to you that has all the rationale. We simply didn't include that with ... with this
one. Number four is a recommendation that the complainant should have the right to respond to
the chief's findings before the board conducts the, you know, their ...their analysis, and we don't
object to that. And as the board noted in their more detailed analysis, there's... there's a rationale
then to allow the police chief to respond to any concerns that the complainant brings up as well,
and we would ... we would think that that would ... would be fair in the process. Um, CPRB
acknowledged that this is going to stretch out the complaint process, potentially, you know, by
several weeks, and ... and I think that's clear when you... when you offer this, but ... but staff does
not object to it. Uh, so ... and there's no legal review needed in this situation. So if...if you know
that this is something you support now, then you can just direct us and we can put that on the
list of things to do in terms of updating the CPRB ordinance. Otherwise we can schedule it for
a work session if you want to have a more robust discussion on it.
Teague: Yeah, I don't ... I don't see any issues here.
Bergus: Yeah, I think this is reasonable (mumbled) would be good to include.
Mims: Yes.
Taylor: I agree (several responding)
Fruin: So this will not move to work session. This will move to an ordinance amendment and you'll see
that at a future formal meeting. Okay, uh, number five is another one in which we believe legal
review is ... is needed. Uh, this is an online database of officer complaints, uh, so that the public
could search a complaint history on a .... on a particular officer or analyze trends. Again, we'd
suggest legal review as needed.
Teague: I'm comfortable with legal review and just waiting to see what they say.
Mims: Agreed.
Taylor: Agree.
Thomas: Agree.
Fruin: Okay. Number six is that a copy of all complaints of misconduct shall be included in the police
department's monthly disclosures to the CPRB. We currently disclose those on a quarterly
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basis, and we do not have a problem moving, uh, to ... to ... to monthly disclosures. So, um, if
you're not familiar, obviously a person can ... can issue their complaint with the CPRB. But
they're not required to. They can bring that complaint directly to the police department and our
supervisory staff would investigate that. Sothis is basically just information sharing back and
forth on internal complaints that we would get and ... and again, we don't have a problem sharing
those on a monthly basis. With a couple of these, one things we ... one of the things we noted is
that, you know, it's ... it's in my view probably a good thing to not only share where we're getting
complaints, but we get a lot of compliments on our service too, and I think it's important
that ... that that exchange happen as well. We can talk to the CPRB if...if that's of interest, but I
think I personally think that would be a good idea. So with this one, no legal reviews needed,
no ordinance changes needed. If you're comfortable with it, staff will go ahead and reach out to
the CPRB and figure out the best way to report that to their comfort level.
Weiner: It's fine.
Mims: Yeah, I'm comfortable. I think the idea of including the compliments, along with the criticism,
is just good for the public to have a little bit better idea of the broader scope of input that we get
on our police department.
Taylor: I agree.
Teague: Great!
Fruin: Okay. Number seven, um ... is just a request for additional information on our ...on the quarterly
reports that we issued to the, uh, to the CPRB. They gave examples of number of detained
individuals, demographics of the detained individuals, total number arrested, etc. Um, we're
happy to provide whatever information we can that's not obviously protected by any kind of
confidentiality, um, laws, and we think we can do this. We ... we probably need to have a
discussion with the CPRB first, just to make sure that we're understanding exactly what they
want here. And then we probably have some suggestions on other data that might be helpful to
them, as well. So as you know, we've got into this with traffic stop discussions. Um, you know,
instances where there's a warrant and basically the officer discretion is taken away, versus
charges that ... that involved officer discretion. I think that's going to be important to distinguish
here. So, again, no legal reviews needed, no ordinance changes needed. Assuming you're
comfortable, we'll just proceed ahead and update our reporting mechanisms to the CPRB.
Teague: I'm seeing majority shaking of heads, maybe. Yep. (several responding)
Frain: Okay, the next one gets at the ability to hire an independent auditor every couple of years to
review our internal investigations. We do this already through our accreditation process, and
we don't object to another third party coming in and doing that. Um, that probably will require
an ordinance change, um, and that's another one where we can skip right to an ordinance change
or if you want to better understand what that audit looks like and ... and have a discussion on
that, we can schedule it for a work session.
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Teague: I think understanding what the current audit looks like would be helpful, potentially not only
for Councilors but for the CPRB board, for them to understand that, and then I would say
maybe take that to them and then if...if...if that's acceptable to them, um, then this item ... we
won't have to discuss any further, but if it isn't then you can bring it back to Council. That
would be my suggestion.
Mims: The other suggestion that I would have is that it, um, may be a concrete every two years, no...no
more frequently than every two years, unless, um, there is some... there's... there's a ... the wording
at the end, `immediate procedural issue.' If there is some, um, specific issue that comes up that
they're questioning a procedure that they, you know, could poten.... figure out a way that they
would have the authority to do that, but I think if you just ... if we just kind of said like, okay, this
would be in every other thing unless there's some ... major issue, and I don't know how you write
that language, that would ... they wouldn't be allowed to do it more frequently.
Taylor: I agree with Susan.
Frain: Okay, I think we can work with that. Chief Liston's on this call too. So, Chief, jump in anytime
on these if you ... if you think you can add something. We'd probably want to try to, if there's
going to be a regular audit done by the CPRB, my guess is we'd probably want to stagger that
with the accreditation process, because those are pretty labor intensive from our standpoint, just
in terms of helping those auditors out, and I'm not sure we'd want to be doing two at one time,
but those are some things we can talk to with the CPRB.
Teague: And... and of course, Chief, jump right in there. I did have a, um, you know, looking at this
internal investigation procedure, urn ... for an immediate procedural issue. So some, I mean I just
wonder.... instances when the CPRB thought that would come up. It ... could this be when, you
know, something wasn't sustained that they ...it was ... it wasn't sustained because the ... the chief
cited different, you know, from what they concluded. So does anyone have any thoughts
on ... examples of when this might come up?
Frain: I think the examples cited in the CPRB report to you were -were ... were those that are done on a
more (mumbled) say regular basis. They weren't, uh, at least to my recollection citing kind of
procedural issues that would trigger it. It was more just, hey, every two years its good to have a
third party come in and make sure that we're aboveboard when it comes to ... to processing those
internal investigations, and again that's something we're used to and we welcome.
Teague: Okay, and that's what I thought I understood it...it was more ... some of the more routine, and
again, they may not be aware of what's already taken place. But ... yeah!
Frain: Okay, we'll keep moving with number nine. They're requesting a budget to do more outreach.
Uh, they also have some specific examples of things they'd like to do, including printing the
CPRB information on officer cards and things of that nature. We ... we support this
recommendation. We can amend the budget this current fiscal year if they have plans,
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otherwise we can amend it for fiscal year 22 and provide them some outreach funding. I think
what we would probably do if you're supportive of this is go back to the CPR ... CPRB; and ask
them to put together a ... a promotional budget or an outreach budget, and ... and then allow them
to kind of figure out what it is they think would be effective, and then we'll consider their
budget request at that time.
Bergus: I was glad to see that streaming their meetings is included in this. I mean I'm a ... I think we
should be streaming as many or all of the board and commission meetings as we can, in as
many places as we can, so I hope that that can be prioritized as well.
Frain: Yeah, I think that can be wrapped into the budget. We can ... we can give them some analysis on
any kind of staff costs that may be needed and... and we can either factor that into our existing
Communications budget or, uh, they can include it in their budget proposal.
Teague: The only question I had with that is when we're, um, so protected information, and when
you're live streaming a meeting... someone may say something that they probably, you know,
isn't ... isn't allowable for the public.
Weiner: There's large sections of the ... Mr. Mayor, there's large sections of the CPRB meetings that are
an executive session. Whenever they're dealing with one of the, uh, a complaint or anything,
that's something that, um ... that even if one of us are in a meeting, we have to leave. We ca ... and
we can't hear it either.
Teague: Okay, all right, so thanks for that.
Frain: Okay. Number 10 is ... is a recommendation that the City provide complainants access to a
lawyer and a social worker, a medical professional, to help them through that process. We
would suggest some legal review be done on this, particularly, you know, in an instance where
the City's hiring a lawyer that could end up in that suit being brought against the City or our
employees. Probably need to think through that a little bit. We ... we don't have issue with
access to social workers or medical professionals, and I think those arrangements could be
made. Obviously there... there's some funding that's going to have to be provided to ... to support
that effort. But if Council is ... is comfortable or would like to know more, we can kind of wrap
that into the budget proposal, so this could be kind of a two-pronged approach... approach. We
can do the legal review on the attorney side and then have them tell us what, you know, give us
some more detail on what ... what they're thinking, and ... and propose cost on the ... on the social
worker side. Getting some head nods there. Okay.
Teague: I'm comfortable.
Frain: All right, 11 is expanding membership of the CPRB from five to seven or nine, with an emphasis
on minority representation and a law enforcement or a police policy expert. This would require
an ordinance change and probably warrants some discussion. I think staff would have a hard
time preparing that ordinance change without some more discussion from Council.
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Mims: Yeah, I'm in agreement.
Bergus: Yeah, I think that the premise and the tone is good and whatever additional discussion we need
to have we should do it.
Taylor: I agree also and I have no objection to increasing their membership numbers.
Weiner: (garbled)
Frain: All right, number 12 is, uh, deals with anonymous complaints or third -party complaints, um,
when someone has personal knowledge of the incident. We understand, I think, what the ... what
the CPR's looking at here, but also I think everybody needs to understand if we can't speak to
the complainant and ... and understand that ... that it may be hard to fully investigate the situation.
So I think that's a ... that's a complicating factor there. And, you know, each ... each situation is
going to be a little bit different, but obviously, you know, in all these cases, we like to ... we like
to talk to the complainant, we like to talk to witnesses, we like to talk to everybody to do a full
investigation, and if you take that one piece out, um, it makes it more difficult. Not saying it's
impossible, uh... uh, it's just a .... I don't know, an incomplete investigation at times, potentially.
Bergus: Well it seems to me the supports that are suggested in number 10 kind of tie into this one as
well, um, and that maybe we can see if there's a little more ... a better understanding we could
come to as to how a complainant can be supported through the process, um, and if that might
address the ... I think the concern that ... that gives rise to number 12. I think it warrants further
discussion.
Mims: Yeah, I think it warrants further discussion. I certainly share the City Manager's concern about
the ... the potential inability to do a really complete investigation. Um, the (mumbled) in the last
number of years of body cams does, I think, allow us potentially to get information, even
without the victim, alleged victim, um, making that objection. So I would say it's worth further
discussion at this point.
Salih: I think we need to hear them or, you know, I really would like to hear exactly what they ...they
meant by that. Just like more information about this.
Frain: Yep, we can ... if we schedule this for a work session, we can provide the full report again to you
that has some more analysis and I think that would help.
Salih: Uh huh.
Dilkes: I think ... I think actually (mumbled) even think of this, Geoff, when we were look ... looking
through these, but I ... I think there's implications for the Peace Officers Bill of Rights too and
how it defines complaints. So I'm going to need to look at that.
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Frain: Okay.
Salih: Yes.
Frain: Okay, so maybe we start with the legal review and then move it to a work session.
FM110=7iMi!
Frain: Okay. All right, the last one from the CPRB is extending the statute of limitations to file a
complaint from the current 90 days to 180 days, and ... and we do not object to, um, that
recommendation.
Salih: (several talking)
Taylor: I agree.
Frain: Okay, uh, that probably ...I didn't make this clear, but that, um, Eleanor, I believe would be an
ordinance change. So we can...
Dilkes: Yep!
Frain: We can lump that into the ordinance change. So you see we've got ... we've got kind of three tiers
here. We have legal review. We have work session. We have ordinance change. The legal
review may ...may take some time. Obviously, you know, you've got busy work session, so I'm
going to suggest, uh... um, that we could move forward with kind of a first round of ordinance
changes for the items that you are comfortable with ... and then, um, after legal review and after
work session, maybe we do a second round of ordinance changes as needed, um, later in the
year. Is that ... so expect kind of two changes to the CPRB ordinance and in ... potentially in ... in
21. Does that sound okay?
Salih: Sound very good.
Frain: Okay. Be comfortable moving to the OIR, uh, recommendations? All right, we have a lot more
here. There's 39 recommendations here. As staff reviews these and again, these... these
recommendations are to you, not to us; but as we review these, we think there's considerable
overlap in a lot of these recommendations. So that's why you see here, um, oftentimes
reference to ... to another recommendation there. Um, in these cases, uh, I don't believe there's
any that ... that require legal review. This is more, um, going to be Council action or...or staff
action, uh, types of discussions. Um, to remind you of the kind of the color coding we used
here. All the CPRB's were green, which was we need some guidance now to get started, and
you just provided that. With these we think there's a number of items that staff can initiate and
bring to you, or that staff can just go ahead and accomplish and report back to you on over time.
So you'll... you'll see fewer greens in here but, um, please know if there's anything that's not
green that you want to discuss first, that that's your purview to do that and we're happy
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to ... we're happy to facilitate that. So the ... the first couple deal with mutual aid agreements with
outside agencies. Um, and both local and Iowa State Patrol. We think in order ...in order to
really update those ... those mutual aid agreements, we have to ... we have to kind of know where
things stand with ... with a couple of our general orders, and that's our use of force and all
hazards general orders. So those are the general orders that generally describe how we would
respond to crowd control, uh, crowd control incidents for the topic that we're discussing, and
what staff is suggesting is that we redraft those orders with some recommendations on changes.
Uh, we provide those to Council, and as a reminder, those also always go to the ... all general
order changes go to the CPRB too, but once we know kind of the rules of engagement for ...for
our police department, then we can really go out and work on those mutual aids. I think it'd be
premature to go out and .... and start working on mutual aid agreements when we don't exactly
know, um, what final decisions you all may make on those ... on those general orders. So that's
why we're saying we need your action, but not quite yet. We'd like to present you with some
recommendations for changes and allow you to .... to make any changes yourself before
engaging those law enforcement agencies.
Mims: That makes sense.
Fruin: Okay. Um, this item three is one of them that we would like some guidance on before we get
started, and this speaks directly to pedestrian activity on the interstate. So the recommendation
is that we need to evaluate, um, how do we respond to pedestrian activity on the interstate. Um,
and this gets at mutual aid, but ... but also just our own ... our own staff too. And I think we need
to think of this holistically because we ... we have situations in which you might have protesters
trying to access the interstate, but we do also get instances where you might have individuals,
um, that for one reason or another are trying to access the interstates. We just have to be careful
and really think holistically about how we ...ow we draft these policies. Um ... um, but we're
going to need some Council guidance on that. That's a tough discussion that I think you all are
going to have to have. Um, but we need some guidance on ... on how you want your police
department to respond when we do have people trying to access the interstate, and one of the
tricky things here is we don't unilaterally have the ability to shut down the interstate. That's
not ... not our jurisdiction. So we kind of have to keep that in mind. I don't expect you to have
that discussion now. That's a ... that's a ... that's a tough detailed discussion that you need to have.
But that's going to be important for us as we update our orders and start to speak to our law
enforcement counterparts about changes to approaches.
Bergus: Geoff, I know you mentioned that you didn't think a lot of these needed legal review, but I just
wanted to ask other Councilors. I would find it helpful if we have some some pretty deep First
Amendment analysis relating to protester activity. I mean, and maybe even just some
superficial analysis relating to that, but I think from my experience over the summer, um, I
think there was a pretty wide understanding that all or many of the activities that took place
would have been protected under current law, and you know, I just think us having a really good
handle on where that stands in the context of choices we would want to make for what
we ... what we might allow that ... that we could craft more specifically would be helpful, but I
don't know what other Councilors think about that.
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Mims: I think that's a good point, because I think, you know, there's... there's the First Amendment and
the free speech, but that doesn't mean you can do anything, anywhere, anytime that you want.
So for those of us that are not constitutional scholars, which I think includes all of us, would, I
think, be really helpful to have that better delineated before we try and get into that discussion,
because there are lines that people cross that they ...they say and think are free speech, but by
preventing them from doing it you're really not preventing free speech. So I think we need a
better understanding of those lines.
Dilkes: Yeah, we have just ... we ... I'm sorry, Pauline (both talking)
Taylor: ... okay, go ahead. I was going to say, and you can probably reflect on this, Eleanor, is I think
it...it kind of would frame a lot of the discussion on a lot of these items, as far as the first
amendment rights and how it relates to protesters.
Dilkes: Yeah, it does. For instance, I think later on in this list is, you know, I mean...I think everybody
would agree that force against a peaceful protester is not appropriate or, uh, the big question
becomes `and how does one define that particularly when you have a group of people, as
opposed to individuals,' etc. There's been ... we've already started to ... to dive into that stuff.
There were some court decisions, um, when injunctions were sought against police departments
around the country, uh, that... that we've been looking at, that I think can provide some
guidance. So I think ... I think you're right.
Weiner: I mean I think there's also at least one piece of legislation that's been working its way through
the Iowa legislature. No idea at this point if the Governor is going to sign it, no idea how legal
it is, but I think we need to wrap that in as well when we're looking at it.
Taylor: And also, Eleanor, are there legalities as far as the State and the DOT and actually shutting
down the interstate that would also, uh, this would also involve that?
Dilkes: I think its pretty clear that the State has jurisdiction over the ... over the interstate.
Thomas: How many times has the interstate actually been closed as a result of demonstrations or
protest activity?
Fruin: In my tenure, John, about 10 years with the City, we've had two, uh, and both referenced in the
OIR report. We had the instance shortly after the 2016 presidential election, and we had last
summer.
Dilkes: I don't ... those are the only two I recall in 25 years.
Thomas: (mumbled) you know, I ... just my thoughts on this as I was reading through them was that, you
know, as a prelude to going out onto the interstate, you know, I would certainly hope, and it gets
into some of the other recommendations, that there will be further negotiation among... among
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the community in terms of the value of...of, you know, heading toward the interstate. On the
other hand, I mean as ... as the report noted, if it's a choice between using munitions on
our ...members of our community and shutting down the interstate, I think, you know, we thus
far we've landed on shutting down the interstate.
Dilkes: Yeah, that's the easy question, John. (laughs, both talking) we can't shut it down.
Thomas: Right but ... yeah, again I ... I would hope this situation could be avoided in the future. Would,
you know, would be one of my responses, but, uh, yeah, anyway, those were some of my
preliminary thoughts.
Dilkes: Yeah, there clear... there clearly are techniques that, I mean, that can ... can be used to ... to help the
situation.
Salih: Yeah, we just, uh, I really agree with John, uh, but we really need to know those techniques,
Eleanor (laughs) If we can have more information on those techniques, so we can come up with
a decision about that.
Fruin: Yeah, you know, a lot of it is ... it ... it's kind of what, you know, what we're prepared for. You
know, in 2016 we didn't have extra staff and, you know, we didn't expect anything with ... with
that ... with that protest. It was a gathering on the Pentacrest that ... that decided to head towards
the interstate, and we just weren't equipped to even get in front of the group and try to make
that ... make that stop. You know, with the the summer's protest after the ... after the first night
on ... on June 31, uh, of access to the interstate. We obviously had ... had more people, and we
were more prepared with ... with concrete barriers, uh, to ... to, you know, set on the roadway to
create a physical barrier. So a lot of it's just going to be in the nature — is it spontaneous, is it
planned, is it, you know, every situation is going to be quite a bit different, but we always have
to anticipate that there's going to be another time in which it's spontaneous and we don't have
the Public Works staff on call with... with.... with concrete barriers or we don't have enough
police staff to ... to, um, effectively control, um, a crowd and prevent them from getting on the
interstate like happened in ... in 2016. So that's the tricky part of all this is ... is that each ... each
night, each day is going to be unique, each circumstance is going to be unique, and probably
going to have a slightly different response because... because of that.
Dilkes: Yeah, I mean, I ... you'll see when I give you the First Amendment analysis, there are no, I mean,
it is a murky, messy, um ... decision making and ... and ... and it becomes even murkier and messier
when you're trying to make decisions ahead of time ... without knowing all the facts, so
(mumbled) just have to do our best.
Fruin: Well we'll provide... we'll provide some legal review from ... from the City Attorney's office and
then we'll jump into some discussions that you can ... you can inform us on ... on some policy
drafting. If we're okay moving to number four, this is the one recommendation that ... that staff
recommends dismissing. I believe that was the only one in this group. This is a
recommendation that we dedicate additional resources to gathering information from social
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media about community sentiment and activism and protest activity. We have ... we have a lot of
protest activity in Iowa City, and we support that. IA really don't think we need our ...our police
staff, you know, dedicated to monitoring social media every time we have a group that wants to
gather on the ped mall or the Pentacrest. I just don't think ... I'm not comfortable with that. I
know our ...our police department wasn't comfortable with that. I£..if things take a ... a turn and
there's, you know, there's property damage or there's other criminal activity or something like
that, then we can dedicate resources to try and prevent and stop that, but just as a rule of thumb
to ... to be engaged in trying to monitor that, while it could help with our preparations, we're just
uncomfortable with that scenario.
Bergus: Thank you for that. I'm grateful to see that one not included.
Fruin: Okay. More proactive outreach to protest leadership, um, this will be addressed in our redrafted
general orders. We'll ... we'll make that expectation clear in those general orders and there's
several other recommendations that speak to this one too. Number six, uh, is ... is tied to that,
and... and it's using crisis negotiation trained personnel to help in those negotiations and
outreach to protest leadership, uh, prior to deployment of course. I think all our officers have a
good baseline with their crisis intervention training, but our department is actively pursuing
some specialty training on ... on protest communications, so that we can deploy those. I think
given what happened across the country this summer, there's .... uh, this past summer,
there's... there's going to be definitely an emphasis on this, um, and we'll pursue those training
opportunities and try to have folks that are kind of specialized in... in this type of outreach. So
no Council action needed there. The next one is, uh, gets at crowd control policies. Again, this
is pretty much the same recommendation restated and we'll... we'll draft, uh, we'll address that
with the ... with the general orders that the CPRB and you will eventually see. Eight, again same
as ... same as before. This just gets at specialty training to ... to work directly with, uh, protest
groups and, as I mentioned, we're pursuing that. Number nine is, uh, those physical barriers we
talked about just a little bit ago, um, and obviously after June 3rd we were able to use those in
most of the instances that ... that followed, where we had, uh, marches to the interstate. So we
did have some positive experience with this ... with this effort and, you know, that's not the police
department, you know, taking out those barriers. That's... that's our Public Works staff that we
had on overtime in those days following June 3', uh, to help take those barriers around.
Emergency Management at the County was very involved, uh, as well, and we're, you know,
we're actively working to make sure that we can spin those types of operations up quickly if
needed. Okay, 10 through 13, and if we want to go through them individually we ... we can, but
what's left on this ... this page here is all items that we believe need to be addressed in our ...in our
general orders, and again we'd suggest that staff present you with some recommendations and
allow you and the CPRB to review those. We will, uh, also with 13, that ... that gets a little bit
more at communication techniques. As you know, we'll have a public safety specialist in our
Communications operation here shortly with the new budget that you authorized, and certainly
that position will ... will be dedicated in part to investigating these techniques, as well, and then
the police department is ... is actively procuring additional sound amplification systems so that
warnings can be more clearly heard by larger groups of individuals, as recommended in this
report.
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Thomas: Yeah, I ... I would just add to that that after watching the video tape, it seemed that some sort of
visual messaging might be considered as well, because there was so much ... just ambient noise
that, you know, the ... any kind of audio... audio, uh, form of communication didn't ... it would be
hard to imagine it working in and of itself effectively. But in any event, yeah, that clearly was a
breakdown. It was ... it was obvious that no one heard the announcements.
Teague: I do like that idea (both talking) Oh, go right ahead, please.
Mims: (mumbled) sorry! No, I was going to say I like that idea, John, because I hadn't thought of
something like that, but definitely when I listened to those, watched and listened to those body
cam videos too. When you listen to people who gave the orders that were near them, it was
very audible, but when you listen to the ones, um, near the frontline, it was not very audible at
all. So that idea of a visual along with an audible warning could potentially be very beneficial.
I don't ... I don't know what other areas do, but that'd be worth investigating.
Salih: I really agree with John because also for me when I listen to (mumbled) I just still today, I
believe that the protester never hear that they gonna be tear gassed. Uh, you know, because you
can hear it in the middle of the crowd, police crowd, but nothing was in the front. So we need
to really improve that.
Teague: I think we are, and I agree with everything that's been said. I would say we also have to realize
that, you know, the people beyond the front lines will not potentially be able to hear. And so...
unless there is something that is going to be preplanned and set up throughout, which, you
know, could be knocked over, whatever the case may be, but I ... I'd think the reality is is that the
front line, um, just the first ... first few lines will be able to see, which will be great. Unless you
can get it way up there, tall and high, um, and only the first few will be able to hear.
Salih: Yes, we can be creative somehow.
Fruin: And that's really what ... what this is asking for is just really ..try to be comprehensive in thought.
We'll look at the visual. IA haven't seen anything like that, but I'm guessing that we're not the
first one to ask if there's some good visual, um, cues that ... that can be adopted as well.
Liston:(mumbled)Geoff. I haven't heard any of those or seen any of those either, but I think it is a
pretty good idea. I'm sure there's something, whether it be something like what the DOT uses
on the freeways or something like that. I think that's a ... that's a ... that's a great idea.
Bergus: And it seems to me this doesn't necessarily have to be a police -specific piece of equipment, I
mean if we're just talking about being able to get a message that can be seen and heard by a
crowd, there, you know, it doesn't seem to me that that has to be a police piece of equipment,
and we may have other uses in the, you know, Parks and Rec department or Communications
for ...for something that can communicate to crowds anyway.
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Taylor: Right, I was thinking it could even be as much as like a bandleader stand that they stand, you
know, up ... they're up above the crowd and be heard better or seen better, uh, something of that
nature.
Fruin: Okay! Um, 14 is ... is territory we just ... we just covered there. Again, clarity and communication,
real-time social media, etc. Um, we should review body camera footage after critical incidents,
identify any remarks that are inconsistent with department expectations. This is ... this is
standard operating procedure for us. I think here ... where the confusion is on this one is that that
internal investigation wasn't done after June 3rd. That's when we opted for that third -party
investigation. But ... but we don't ... we do this routinely, um, al ... already as part of our ...as part of
our existing general order process. So no further action is needed on ... on that one for us.
Number 16 is a call for us to go back and review individual use of forces, uh, from the June 3rd
event, and the Police Chief has already initiated that process internally. So that ... this one is
already, um, underway. Okay, 17 and 18 are the next two. Um, 17 gets at the
miscommunication that occurred between the police department and ... and fire and ambulance
on the night of June 3rd. There was a debriefing in the days and weeks following the June 3rd
event, and staff feels very comfortable that those... that debriefing was successful and ... and that
those issues have been satisfied, and we're certainly keen and aware of that situation, but we
don't feel like there's anything else that's needed. That was ... that was already accomplished.
Uh, 18 gets at uniform identification for officers and tactical gear, and we concur with this
recommendation and ... and the Chief and, uh, captains are... are pursuing officer identification on
those tactical uniforms.
Mims: I'm really glad to see this. I think this past summer we saw some really disturbing video and
heard a lot of disturbing stuff, I think particularly out of Portland, of people being picked up off
the street, with people who nobody could identify what law enforcement agency they were with
or if they were even with a law enforcement agency. And so regardless of how difficult or
chaotic the situation, I think it is really important that members of the public can identify the
law enforcement agencies and individual identification of those officers as well, so I'm glad to
see this.
Weiner: Yeah, I agree. The only places I've been where, you know, that (mumbled) Portland what we
were seeing in Portland sort of reminded me of some countries I've served in where there's
just ... there's no accountability and you can't, uh, and there's no way to figure out what happened
to whom. I think this is a really important step.
Fruin: Okay. Uh, 19 gets at disorderly conduct that takes place, and again, we think that this ... this will
need to be addressed in the ... in the updated general order, uh, that we plan to bring back to ... to
you and the CPRB. Um, parameters for use of force and deployment of munitions in the
context of protest activity. Again, there's a lot of overlap here. This is what our general orders
would get at. We do want to continue to reiterate that, you know, whatever procedures are
adopted, are... are content mutual, right? I mean it doesn't matter what you're protesting, your
rights are the same, and so we have to ... we have to keep that in mind, um, when the time comes
to review these general orders. Uh, 21 and 22, we put in those same ... same categories too, um,
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actually 23 as well. We can go through them individually, but our ...our feeling is that the
general orders will cover those and we'll get into those discussions. Um, a policy ...uh, 24 is a
policy manual on its website with a searchable function. We already have all our general orders
on the website, but they're... they're not searchable in the context that ... that OIR is ... is requiring,
um, or is suggesting, um, you can download a PDF and if you have the right software, you can
search within there, but we're going to look at some outside vendors that can assist with this.
(mumbled) we currently don't have the capability to do this with our ...our current content
management system on our website. So we've got a couple opportunities, either a third -party
vendor that can provide this type of service or as we go through our website redesign, um, that's
in an RFP stage right now. If there is a content management system that can accomplish this
without a third -party system we'll go that route too.
Teague: Um, do you know where we are in the process or what is the time frame for that website
redesign? I know, Councilor Bergus, this is one of your (laughs) one of your pet peeves
(laughs)
Frain: Yeah, so we, um, as a reminder, the current website was designed in partnership with the
University of Iowa. We kind of piggybacked onto their content management system. We have
an RFP that's on the street right now. It's a request for proposals. So we basically said, `We're
going to be redesigning our site. If you are a website designer that has municipal experience,
submit your proposals to us.' Those proposals are probably due in April or May, I don't know
the exact date, and then, you know, we'll ... our hope was to select one by the start of the fiscal
year, which is when the budgeted funds are available to actually conduct the work. So that's a
long process. Um, you know I'd like to think we can accomplish it next fiscal year. But ... but
it's probably... we're probably 12 months out, if I had to guess.
Teague: I think, at least for me, I'm comfortable knowing that we'll be having a website redesign, um,
and ... and making sure we ask if that's something that they ...that they can do, um, within... within
their process. If not, um, then, you know, having a ... another third -party... assist would be
appropriate.
Frain: Yeah, and I think what the Chief will ... will go through is this process of saying what other... what
other value -adds can a third -party bring to it. If it's just a searchable function, then hopefully
we can accomplish that through the content management system that we acquire, but ... but there
maybe some other advantages to working with a third -party and that's something we'll just have
to (both talking) over the next couple months.
Teague: Sounds good!
Frain: Okay, 25 is another general order update. This gets at the annual training curriculum and ... and
actually crowd control training and being more diligent about how frequent we are with ... with
that level of training. We certainly agree with that and will include that. Staff is already
pursuing updates to the tactics manual, so we will update those accordingly. I don't believe
there's any Council action needed there. And 27 gets at the same thing. It's ... its not just Iowa
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City PD training but is there metro or regional training on crowd control that can be pursued.
And, of course, that makes a lot of sense too and... and we'll try to accomplish that. That speaks
at...at 28 as well. Um, 29 gets at looking at case law and best practices related to protest
activity, crowd, uh, crowd management, and we'll certainly do that. We can do that through
our ...our network of other departments, but there's also some good independent literature out
there from non -police agencies on ... on crowd control as well, and we'll consult all those sources
when ... when looking at our ...our policies and procedures.
Bergus: Just a question about this group that talks about best practices and ... and crowd control, I mean,
what's... can... can you articulate sort of based on the direction of the Council that we've given so
far, like how ...how do we know what best practices are, who's best practices are we adopting.
Like I have some discomfort with the, you know, just a generic idea of best practices based on
what we saw from departments across the country over the summer, u, that I'm sure there's
some cities that thought what they were doing was ... was reasonable and, obviously, that would
not be acceptable here.
Fruin: Yeah, that's a .... that's a very fair point, and, you know, maybe the term `best practices' wasn't...
wasn't the best choice. I think ... I think the intent, as we see the intent here, best practices
was ... was certainly OIR's wording, but lessons learned, urn ... uh, new strategies, new
adaptations, I think there's... there's already a lot of school of thought on ... on these, you know,
based on last summer. So, um, we'll certainly look ... look out there to see if there was
departments that had success, you know, um ... um, in other ways, but I think from ... from our
standpoint, we're wide open, and ... and whether that's trying something completely new that's
kind of authored after last summer ,I think we're open to that. The bottom line is we need
to ... we need to kind of cast the net out there to see what the school of thought is post -2020
on ... on crowd control and make sure that we're doing everything we can to honor the Council's
and ... and community's expectations.
Liston: Many of the other agencies across the country are going through the same problem right now.
Um, a lot of different agencies learned some hard lessons over the summer, including my
former agency. So I think best practices are probably changing as we speak, so as Geoff said, I
do think we need to cast a wide net and... and with your (mumbled) with your guidance as a
Council ,decide what we think the best practices are.
Dilkes: Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of that too. I mean I'll give you an example. Like one of the things we've
looked at is a report by NYU School of Law called "Policing Protests to Protect Constitutional
Rights and Public Safety." That was done in October of 2020, so there's... there's a fair amount
of literature, I think, that we can look to that uses the 2020 BLM protests as a learning tool.
Fruin: Okay. Moving on, we have the final set of recommendations or final page. You'll see a lot of
white on this page, which is us again basically saying we don't think any Council action's
needed, but by all means jump in and redirect if appropriate. Um, the ... 30 gets at the incident
command structure, and you know, making sure that we have the training in place that's needed
to ... to fully implement an ICS. Chief Liston's already initiated refresher training on incident
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Page 17
command and will continue to do that. That'll be an ongoing emphasis in the department.
That's also is (mumbled) I think 31 we believe is the same action there. Establishing generic
crowd management plan templates... templates in advance of protest activity, um, may be
helpful, was the OIR recommendation. Candidly, we ... we kind of doubt that this will help
much because our experience is that every protest is ... is very unique in its own way, um, and
there's some danger, I think, in relying on a template and not, you know, not kind of tying the
hands of...of your ...of your department to respond to maybe some unique circumstances that
they see, if they feel like they're tied to a template, but we understand I think at a more general
level what they're trying to get at here and it's really preparation. So, you know, some
templates...I think we can develop some very general templates, but we certainly want to
maintain the ability for our ...our command staff to ... to use their discretion, um, during... during,
uh, future events. So we'll ... we'll pursue this, but just want to let you know we're a little ... little
lukewarm on that. We're not going to put a whole lot of stock in ... into ... into those templates.
Weiner: I just want to raise the issue again (clears throat) of the ... of the State legislature, and again at
least one of the laws that ... that I think is going to go to the Governor's desk, if it's not already,
that we'll have to factor that in here, unfortunately.
Frain: Yeah, the, uh, appreciate that. Uh, we'll have to ... thafll be an ongoing evaluation there. Um, 33
is the ... and 34 are both incident command. The, um, you know, command post location was
criticized in the OIR report. And ... and we agree that, you know, there was ... there were some
problems with that command post location, and there may be some other ...other unique, you
know, other facilities. We did have ... I think normally in a case like this, you know, a facility
like JECC could work really well for a command post location, but keep in mind that that was
also the COVID command post site. So there were other, you know, as ... as I said before, there's
always unique, complicating factors and... and in hindsight, maybe there was a better location.
Uh, we'll—we'll give that some thought so that we have several different sites identified. Uh,
35 is the tactical channel for communication. Um, these capabilities already exist and no
action's required there. You know, with 34 and 35 you can see in our ...our comments, um, at
times we felt some of the recommendations from OIR were ... were really well suited for very
large departments with lots of personnel. We are still a relatively small department, particularly
when you have an activity that has hundreds of people on the street. Um, and so we don't
always have the depth of supervisory personnel on ... on staff at any given time, uh, when it
comes to making sure that you've got the right people out on the streets and the right people in
command post. At times, you know, we're still a small department and we're going to struggle
with that, but ... but we do understand what they're ... what they're saying here, and we'll certainly
work to make sure the right people are in the right locations. Uh, 36 gets at tactical
communications, and again, we ... we concur that one-on-one communications is ideal.
Circumstances often dictate when that's possible and when it's not. 37 gets in that same kind of
how are you communicating with officers on a tactical level. All that's being evaluated right
now. We're exploring some alternative communication capabilities there as well. I think we
made ... the best, you know, we may do with it ... with what we had and made the best of what we
had, uh, last year. The, you know, the command number 38 is ... is, again, just who's involved in
that command post or in that incident command system, and ... and OIR's points are well taken
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Page 18
and... and frankly, we acted on those in the days following June 3`d. So it's really getting at who
else needs to be at the table, uh, when you're managing events like that, uh, bringing in fire,
bringing an ambulance, those ... those types of agencies as well, and that was done after June 3rd
And then 39 is the communication specialist position. You have already authorized the budget.
Um, we're going ... it's a new position and new positions require specific Council action to create
as well. Uh, so in the ... in the coming month we'll probably bring you, you know, a request to
authorize that position, which will allow us to go out and advertise and fill that position. So
you don't need to do anything now, but you will eventually in a formal meeting have to vote on
the creation of that position, even though you've dedicated the funds to it already.
Bergus: Geoff, is that the position that is in your office?
Fruin: Correct, so that'll be a public safety communications position that's housed in our centralized
Communication office, which is part of the City Manager's office, and they will serve both
Police and Fire.
Teague: Well, thank you for that, Geoff. Any other questions for Geoff on ... on OIR? All right, so it's
about five minutes till 6:00. I'm wondering how Council is feeling. Do we want to take a little
break, like 5, 10 minutes and come back and continue with police... preliminary plan or what
are ... what are thoughts?
Salih: 15 minutes to 6:00, Mayor ...not five.
Teague: It is (laughs) 15 minutes till 6:00! Thank you. (laughs)
Thomas: (mumbled) wouldn't mind doing the... the... the draft on another work session, but, uh... and just
leave it here for now, for me. There's only so much of this that I personally (laughs) can go
through before I start... zoning out, I think, a little bit.
Teague: I have to agree with John. I think that we went through a lot of intense (laughs) information
pretty quickly. We know that it's very important to all of us, and certainly I don't want to, um,
my physical body (laughs) to, you know, react to the information. I want ... I want to make sure
that I'm at my best. So ... um, is there consensus that we can maybe create another work session
to talk about the police restructuring?
Taylor: I would go along with that, because I think it demands our full attention.
Mims: Yeah, I think that's fine. I think given the number of -ones that the staff feels we don't need to
act on, that they're either already doing things on or they combine, I think it'll be a fairly... fairly
quick discussion, although certain items might take a lot more time, but I'm fine with putting it
off to another meeting.
Bergus: I'd just like to schedule that so we know when ... when that's happening and (both talking)
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Page 19
Teague: Yeah.
Bergus: (both talking) lose track of it.
Teague: Yeah, that's where my mind went, and I was trying to think about our work sessions coming
up, um, if it could be in a regular work session. Um, I ... what ... what we'll do is we'll ... we'll meet
tomorrow and maybe we can bring it back at our next work session, just to update the Council.
Salih: But, Geoff, can you give us update about what... the... the public feedback on the restructuring of
the police?
Fruin: Yeah, so just as a reminder, um, after initially discussing the report in January or February of this
year, Council asked for some more public feedback. I reached out to a couple of folks in the
community that I think could help us, um, do a little deeper dive into ... into the community a
little bit. So I've got ... I've got some folks that I believe will be willing to contract with us to do
that work. The early feedback that I've gotten is that it would be really helpful to, um, or really
beneficial to have some in-person meetings, uh, to ... to help with this feedback, and that if we're
just relying on electronic means that it's not going to be as robust as maybe we want it to be. So
I think we're optimistic that we could launch something, and you know, maybe May, June, July
and... and allow for some more in-person meetings and then get you that feedback later in the
summer. And, you know, that's a tricky thing with this, cause I don't want to presume that
everybody's comfortable moving ahead. But I also don't want to lose time as well, especially
when we're talking about alternative response models with expanding mobile crisis and, um,
you know, 9-1-1 integration. Those tasks are going to take some time, and I really ...I want to ... I
want to have those discussions with ... with community partners, with other governments, and so
that's... that's kind of that balance I'm looking to get from Council. This ... this is a little bit
different than the last two sets of recommendations that you went through, because you're going
to have to give us some guidance on what ... what can you go ahead and do staff, and what do we
really need to wait for more public input on, and ... and I want to respect ,you know, your ...your
guidance on that. So I'll work with the Mayor and Mayor Pro Tem, and we'll try to get this
scheduled at one of our regular work sessions coming up and we'll go ... we'll go from there.
Bergus: I would just ask if other Councilors are willing to maybe frame up that conversation with a
more general like big picture conversation or lead into it about like where we think we're
headed and shared values and just kind of that ... sort of strategic planning element that we've
touched on a couple of times in our work sessions, but for example, like the definition of
policing and this conversation that we had in the budgeting process about, okay, so things like
animal control and crossing guards are within policing. Is that really how we want it to be and
what does that mean for the public when we're, you know, putting those under the umbrella of
policing. If we can have that conversation, I think leading in to give staff guidance on some of
those urgent questions, like Geoff was saying, to not lose time on something like 9-1-1
integration, I would find that really helpful. I think it'd be helpful for the public. I don't know
what other people think.
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Salih: I really think, yeah, there is some item we can talk about (mumbled) without hearing the public
feedback, but I really think that we need to hear the public feedback before we can proceed in
many, many items. So I just don't want to say, okay, staff, we comfortable about this stuff
moving forward and after that the public will have different feedback. Yeah I understand, as it
is certain things that even, you know, it's just like (mumbled) was talking about the animals, you
know (mumbled) and all this kind of things. Yeah, there is certain stuff that we can talk about
it. But I really don't want to like really, you know, hurry up and (mumbled) you know, talking
about this. This is historical change and I thinks we are really doing something really good, and
we are making history here, and I just want to see that we hear the public feedback, we put lot
money in translation, we hire people, and we're doing that, just like take our time in certain
stuff. We don't need to hurry up and do this. Yeah, that's really my insight.
Teague: Any other comments?
Thomas: Well, just in responding to Laura, I think, you know, what I've been trying to focus on, and I
haven't looked at the draft as deeply as I need to look at it, but I'm, you know, there are
certain ... with respect to some of the things we've just reviewed, there are certain things which
seem to be kind of internal... internally oriented in terms of the organization, say of our police
department and its relationships to other entities, things of that sort, where I'm, you know, not
so concerned with hearing strongly from the community and the public, where ... where there
actually is that interface with the... with the community and the public. It's ... it's those
recommendations that I'm most concerned with, and you know, how, you know, if you were to
ask ... I mean this... this... this thing came out, you know, it's sort of a very full blown set of
resolutions, and I keep wanting to ask, you know, those of us who are really engaged in this.
So ... so what is it that really concerns you in terms of your everyday relationship with our police
force, and how can we improve that, and so that's how I really want to try to look at the draft,
but also as has been mentioned, is there anything else there that we need to be considering that
may not be in the draft? So that ... that's where I kind of am at the moment. But I'm glad we
have two of these sets out of the way, so I can try to refocus back on the one that's left.
Weiner: I hear what you're saying, John. I also don't think this is going to be a closed process. (both
talking) and I think that we're going to look at whatever, you know, this set and anything else
we bring into it and what the public comments on, and then other things are going to come up
down the line that we're going to continue to want to examine.
Taylor: I think it'll be (garbled) the new Chief (garbled) Chief Liston and ... and his impressions of these
recommendations and his thoughts.
Mims: Well, I think a couple of really important points have been brought up. I think, you know, John,
you know, in terms of what we want and how we interact with the public, that I think for a lot of
us it's not just how we interact with the public, but more importantly how do the people of color
in this community, um, what are their interactions and their perceptions and ... and their views
and feelings and thoughts in terms of interacting with the police department and law
enforcement in general, and making sure that we're addressing those ... in all the things that we're
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of
March 23, 2021.
Page 21
looking at and talking about, uh, and Janice, as you're saying, this ... this is not a .... this is not a
dead-end kind of thing. This is ... this is a revolving door. We're going to keep going over this,
and if we do it right, it's something that we review continually. And, you know, as we get more
public input, as circumstances change, we need to be, you know, reviewing this, you know, on
an ongoing basis, and from your comments, Laura, about kind of that bigger picture and how
we look at that. I guess I'm not entirely sure what ... that I understand where you're going with
that, and we can have that conversation later, uh, as well, but I think, you know, as we look at
our overall values, I think quite frankly that all seven of us are on the same page. Uh, the public
may not believe that and the public may not agree with that, with a lot of the comments they
make, but I truly believe that the seven of us want to have a police department, and I believe our
staff does, that are ... we want to have a law enforcement department that respects the public,
treats people with respect, does not discriminate based on race, color, creed, sexual orientation,
etc., whatever other, you know, uh, qualifications or discriminations that you might have. And
we want to make sure that happens, and so I think as we go through these things that we looked
at today, in terms of whether it's additional training, outside auditing, etc., changes in general
orders. I believe ... I know that's what's in my mind and what's in my heart, and I believe
absolutely 100% that that is what is in the minds and hearts of our entire Council. I think a lot
of people don't believe that, and I think the reason they don't believe that is because they don't
necessarily agree with our approach. So I think we can have the same goal in the end. I think
we can have different approaches along that process, and what I ... what I do find discouraging
lately is the almost hateful speech that we are getting in our City Council meetings and in the
TRC meetings, simply because people do not believe in the same approach. So they want
to ... they want to ... they want to tell the people how we feel and how we think, simply because
they do not agree with our approach, and I will push back on that today, and I will push back on
that in every future meeting, and if necessarily... necessary, I will start pushing back on that in
media posts ... that do not try to tell the public what we believe and what we feel, simply because
you do not agree with our approach, and I think all of us need to keep reinforcing that, because I
do truly believe that all seven of us have the same feeling about what we need to have out of our
law enforcement and what we need to have out of all of our staff as they interact with the
public, even though we don't necessarily all agree on the approach. I'll leave it there.
Teague: Any other comments? No. Well, I have to say, uh, Councilor Mims, thank you for the word ...
those words. I think ... and I'll leave it here, I think that what's being said is not... sometimes we
didn't even... for the ... for the police preliminary plan to restructure the police, the only person
that spoke about their position in December was John Thomas. And I believe everyone else
said we're going to wait to have a discussion. But then people began to define our positions
when we haven't even shared them, so I think to the public, again, I ... it is very ...it's very
important that we really do work together. This is not against ... this is ... this should not be about
Council against the public. This is our city. We can work together, we really can, and so I do
urge all the individuals that come to the Council, please consider that we are not here to be
against you. We are here to work for the people of Iowa City, very hard decisions. This keeps
me up at night (laughs) It keeps a lot of us up at night, but we're going to get through it as a
community and I again thank ... thank all of the Council, thanks the public ... thank the public for
your input as well. It's very important (garbled)
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Taylor: I would like to add to what Councilor Mims said, and thank those people, those members of the
public who have been supportive of us and have sent, uh, spoken up or sent, uh, emails, positive
emails, I would like to thank them.
Teague: If there's nothing else for today, we will adjourn, and we will be back on ... oh wait, two weeks
from now (laughs) Because we have a fifth week this month. So ... all right, we'll see you all,
have a good night.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of
March 23, 2021.